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[MBTI General] relationships xNTJ's with xNTP

entropie

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Yes, it was quite shocking for me when I lived there. I am assertive and blunt and all of those things, but my man is always my man and I would never speak down to him. In public or in private. Ever.

What I think too, is an important phaenomena I witnessed. While I was going to school, we had like 2 couples in 4 classes of 120 students. And when school was over, all of a sudden the couples multiplied by factor 25.

This was very strange cause there was no Cupid with wings shooting love arrows around, it just happened and with most couples it happened out of some sort of pragmatism, I cant explain.

Now, 8 years later, most of the couples still persist and you can see in around 75% of them that there is no love. But they stay together nevertheless.

Never experimenting. Never thinking about thereselves or looking for their personal wishes to life. just dully playing along with some sort of "rules" and accepting them the more as they go.

Now you can extrapolate what will happen to them, if they get 30-50 years old.
 

jenocyde

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Jen, maybe there is more of a cultural interply going on in comparision to the US?

Or maybe it's a difference between US men and European?

Yes, that's what I was thinking too. Of course there are difference between US and Euro, but Germany is different than Italy or France. And as a matter of fact West Germans are very different from East Germans. The men from the west are more similar to the American style of "macho", especially the boys from Cologne (excuse me while I *swoon*).

The French "macho" is unappealing to me. And the Italian "macho" is all smoke and mirrors. The East German men, though... they are so much softer but for some reason, I have dated more of them than I would like to admit. I think they are attracted to me because I am so assertive, but not as "rough" as my East German female counterparts. And I *love* boys from Croatia, Poland, Serbia, etc...
 

entropie

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Haha, yea Cologne is full of machos, especially machos who like other machos :D
 

jenocyde

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What I think too, is an important phaenomena I witnessed. While I was going to school, we had like 2 couples in 4 classes of 120 students. And when school was over, all of a sudden the couples multiplied by factor 25.

This was very strange cause there was no Cupid with wings shooting love arrows around, it just happened and with most couples it happened out of some sort of pragmatism, I cant explain.

Now, 8 years later, most of the couples still persist and you can see in around 75% of them that there is no love. But they stay together nevertheless.

Never experimenting. Never thinking about thereselves or looking for their personal wishes to life. just dully playing along with some sort of "rules" and accepting them the more as they go.

Now you can extrapolate what will happen to them, if they get 30-50 years old.

Oh yes, I see this a lot. Even relationships where they live in different countries for years. Makes no sense. It also seems like affairs are more common. Or maybe they are just as common as they are here, but they are way more accepted and spoken about openly in Germany.

I dated one man who was with a girl for years. Cheated on her and left her for the woman he cheated with. When they broke up, the first girl took him back. Then he cheated on her again (with me, but I didn't know) and left her for me. When I broke up with him, she took him back again. It happened 2x more. And they are back together now, again.

Also, I think the reason is that people just don't date. They meet and form couples and that's it.


Haha, yea Cologne is full of machos, especially machos who like other machos

hahahaha, sad but true.
 

tinkerbell

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especially the boys from Cologne (excuse me while I *swoon*).

I worked for a consultancy firm in Germany which had a good mix between male and female, I wasn't consious of any sumissivness (but then they were probably a brighter environement than most). Although one of the adminstrative staff was dating sucha thug - you could see physical/mental abuse on the cards for her, but he was strong and cute so she was smitten.

I worked with oen guy from Cologne - V cute.

I get what you mean about french/italian men, don't know much abotu east German men, but did have a date with a Chez last time I was in Prague - so cute, and very gentle - very intellectual and one of those repressed romantic types - the upside of communist regime was the high proteen diet, this guys muscles - YUM!!!!
 

entropie

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Oh yes, I see this a lot. Even relationships where they live in different countries for years. Makes no sense. It also seems like affairs are more common. Or maybe they are just as common as they are here, but they are way more accepted and spoken about openly in Germany.

I dated one man who was with a girl for years. Cheated on her and left her for the woman he cheated with. When they broke up, the first girl took him back. Then he cheated on her again (with me, but I didn't know) and left her for me. When I broke up with him, she took him back again. It happened 2x more. And they are back together now, again.

Also, I think the reason is that people just don't date. They meet and form couples and that's it.




hahahaha, sad but true.

^^

I feel understood.

Now I am not even shy about the fact that I only had two woman so far, while my male friends have hit the 10+ area a long time ago :)
 

jenocyde

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I get what you mean about french/italian men, don't know much abotu east German men, but did have a date with a Chez last time I was in Prague - so cute, and very gentle - very intellectual and one of those repressed romantic types - the upside of communist regime was the high proteen diet, this guys muscles - YUM!!!!

Oh, and the Hungarians. *swoons again*

^^

I feel understood.

:hug:
 

entropie

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Can we talk about something else now that sentimental stuff wears me out !

What about soccer, Real Madrid vs Dortmund my neighbour town today. What you think ? I say 1:6 :D
 
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Can we talk about something else now that sentimental stuff wears me out !

What about soccer, Real Madrid vs Dortmund my neighbour town today. What you think ? I say 1:6 :D

Yeah, so how about them [generic sports team]? They're doing real good this season. And if only that [newest coach/captain/quarterback] wasn't such a fuck-up, they'd be doing even better! :steam:
 

jenocyde

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Or how about NTJs and NTPs????

I want an INTJ, as a do-over. I have failed miserably with 2, and I failed miserably trying to get a third one. None of these men were interested in me, at all. So, there's that.
 

tinkerbell

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Can we talk about something else now that sentimental stuff wears me out !

What about soccer, Real Madrid vs Dortmund my neighbour town today. What you think ? I say 1:6 :D

LOL - I might be assertive but I'm still a women :rolleyes:
 

tinkerbell

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Jen

Why do you want a 3rd INTJ?

what happened to the last two.

I think my recent rub shoulders with one was the first who wasn't a blood relative. I'm guessing my father was one (who I got on with) and my least prefered brother is one.
 

JocktheMotie

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I think female NT assertiveness is such because NTs in general abhor sacrificing any ounce of individuality, and hate censoring themselves "just because." NT females may face more resistance because they're girls and NTs typically ignore gender roles. It isn't as much a power play as it is just being unapologetic in being themselves.

Probably also the reason the girls seem more assertive than the guys, they just need to expend more effort jumping over the societal hurdles.
 
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I think female NT assertiveness is such because NTs in general abhor sacrificing any ounce of individuality, and hate censoring themselves "just because." NT females may face more resistance because they're girls and NTs typically ignore gender roles. It isn't as much a power play as it is just being unapologetic in being themselves.

Probably also the reason the girls seem more assertive than the guys, they just need to expend more effort jumping over the societal hurdles.

Well put!

-----Took you long enough. :coffee: Where you thinking about having sex with photons again?
 

tinkerbell

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I think my assertiveness falls on the dominant side, I'm not going to let myself off that hook, but I do agree that sometimes the gender bit gets in the way... what is so wrong with women beign direct about askign a bloke out... ;)
 

entropie

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The last INTJ I knew was my best friend for over 5 years. She taught me about astronomy, showed me how to calculate the "ascending" thing of a starsign in astrology, talked with me about probability theory and we both got intrested in quantum physics.

She had 2 best friends and all together they called us Charlies Angels, with me being a damned good Charlie :D.

I never had something with that girl, though we seemed like destinied for each other. We never even got close, cause noone made an advance. Until the last day she finished school and went to France to study. We tried sleeping together and it was horrible. I so can fuck myself in the face for messing that up bigtime. I just hope she got to know some nice french boy and forgot about me as fast as humanly possible !
 

Kra

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what is so wrong with women beign direct about askign a bloke out... ;)

Nothing if you're after an INTJ... since that's what you'd have to do anyway for us to know what the hell is going on. :laugh:
 

jenocyde

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Jen

Why do you want a 3rd INTJ?

what happened to the last two.

The second one - well, I was wrapped up in him a lot more than I was willing to admit at the time. But all he wanted to do was change me. He hated the fact that I wore heels all the time, he hated that I would jump to run out the door when my phone rang. He hated that I always have people staying at my house. I guess he just didn't like me.

I fell for the third one, not because he was an INTJ, just because he was cool as shit. I think I intimidated him by moving things along too fast. Which I still can't see, but I respect his opinion nonetheless. We never dated. It basically came down to that he didn't realize I was hitting on him in a real way and he was not ready for it. So, in other words, he didn't like me either.

The first, I wrote about in a post (click on quote and also read the subsequent posts...):

I like INTJs a lot and enjoy their sense of humor. Very dry. The only things I don't like, which I've mentioned a million times before, is the dismissiveness when they think you are wrong and the way they attack your character, rather than the argument. Not a fan. But everything else is a-ok.

Speaking of showers... I dated an INTJ once and it was taking a very long time before we got, um, intimate. One day as I was getting into the shower, he asked if he could watch. I thought that this was it, and was overjoyed. He told me to pretend as if he wasn't there and to just shower from start to finish the way I normally do. Ok, whatever. So I took my usual shower and he just sat there and watched. I was a bit disappointed, but didn't judge - people are into a variety of things.

I didn't hear from him for the next two days. He then appeared at my door with a powerpoint presentation of how I can make more efficient use of my time in the shower - so I can finally be on time when we have plans. Hmpf.

Basically, none of these men liked me. I don't know why I would want to try again. Maybe masochism? Maybe because there are so many other redeeming qualities - the humor, the devilish glint, the intelligence, the everything?? But at the end of the day, I know it probably won't work. Incidentally, these are the only men that have ever rejected me, so take that for what it's worth - it's most likely masochism.


I think female NT assertiveness is such because NTs in general abhor sacrificing any ounce of individuality, and hate censoring themselves "just because." NT females may face more resistance because they're girls and NTs typically ignore gender roles. It isn't as much a power play as it is just being unapologetic in being themselves.

Probably also the reason the girls seem more assertive than the guys, they just need to expend more effort jumping over the societal hurdles.

Again, you hit it out of the park. I'm impressed, my dear Robin. Now, shine up the batmobile for me, will ya?
 
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