[MBTI General] relationships xNTJ's with xNTP

[tinkerbell]

 

[JocktheMotie]

Here is something I've seen in an ENTP. He tends to shoot for ideas that are beyond what he can sufficiently support. This is what I also meant by over-estimating his abilities. Ni dominants do the same, but the thought sits in back of the mind until it's ready. The Ne user throws them right out. It may be a method of using their environment to process their thoughts. (This is another example of seeing someone's actions in my light. Ex: How NTPs are 'lazy' to NTJs.)

Of course, not every ENTP will relate.

I just think you're interpreting it incorrectly, which isn't your fault, you just see an ENTP abandonment of a personal or professional project in your terms rather than theirs. What you call an overestimation of ability because of an incomplete project, the ENTP calls losing interest and channeling energy elsewhere, to far more fruitful pursuits. You think they abandon projects because they cannot complete them, they think they abandon projects because they are no longer important.

 

[Lethe]

What is your basis for deciding that he can't handle these things, rather than simply choosing not to?

(This is another example of seeing someone's actions in my light. Ex: How NTPs are 'lazy' to NTJs.)

It's mostly about learning where and when to turn off your personal view of an action. There was an earlier discussion about how NTJs see NTPs as the indecisive group. This is here explains how I can interpret a half-supported idea as over-estimating one's abilities because I analyze things thoroughly before I say them. (But the longer method is not immune to poor quality.)

 

[entropie]

It's mostly about learning where and when to turn off your personal view of an action. There was an earlier discussion about how NTJs see NTPs as the indecisive group. This is here explains how I can interpret a half-supported idea as over-estimating one's abilities because I analyze things thoroughly before I say them. (But the longer method is not immune to poor quality.)

You should start by phrasing things a way I can understand them too :/

 

[jenocyde]

It's mostly about learning where and when to turn off your personal view of an action. There was an earlier discussion about how NTJs see NTPs as the indecisive group. This is here explains how I can interpret a half-supported idea as over-estimating one's abilities because I analyze things thoroughly before I say them. (But the longer method is not immune to poor quality.)

*Edit: Jock tagged it first.

Yes, what Jock said. He's been on a roll lately.

But again, I must ask the question: on what basis are you deciding that ideas are half supported, before you even conclude that they are over-estimated?

 

[Lethe]

You should start by phrasing things a way I can understand them too :/

Yeah, communication exchanges can be a bit of a b*tch.

But I'm now interested. How could I make my ideas more accessible?

 

[entropie]

Yeah, communication exchanges can be a bit of a b*tch.

But I'm now interested. How could I make my ideas more accessible?

Can you express them with images ? I love books with images

 

[Lethe]

Yes, what Jock said. He's been on a roll lately.

But again, I must ask the question: on what basis are you deciding that ideas are half supported, before you even conclude that they are over-estimated?

Jock illustrated it rather well in his post, with this line:

"You think they abandon projects because they cannot complete them, they think they abandon projects because they are no longer important."

For myself, to be fully supported requires some sort of conclusion, even if it's an unknown variable. The said ENTP did not acknowledge (or I suppose cared) that there was a missing factor in his idea.

This is has been illuminating discussion. I'm getting to understand more about Ne, however little that is. So thanks everyone. I need to get ready for a meeting.

 

[entropie]

Ok I have to go to a meeting too.

*puts on boxers again*

L8r

 

[jenocyde]

Jock illustrated it rather well in his post, with this line:

"You think they abandon projects because they cannot complete them, they think they abandon projects because they are no longer important."

For myself, to be fully supported requires some sort of conclusion, even if it's an unknown variable. The said ENTP did not acknowledge there was a missing factor in his idea.

This is has been illuminating discussion. I'm getting to understand more about Ne, however little that is. So thanks everyone. I need to get ready for a meeting.

Yeah, that was the one line of Jock's that I took issue with, but didn't want to push it. I don't think I abandon projects because they are no longer important, I know that I do. That's the only reason. If I feel like I cannot complete something, I will work day and night in order to do so. I can't resist any sort of challenge. Not even a little bit.

But I'm still not sure what you mean by conclusion and missing factor. I suspect that I won't get a satisfying answer (conclusion), and it doesn't really matter. This was an illuminating for me, too. Thanks!

 

[Qre:us]

All this I'm taking from anecdotal experiences in real life:

ENTP - Love/hate, either I love them, or they irritate me because I see the same thought processes as mine but with completely different conclusions (that I most likely discarded, hence, my annoyance). And, the immature cocky ones (mostly the boys) whose ethics are malleable, makes me want to sucker punch them in the face. The ones I love are because they bring validation to me, my personality (being seen as a crazy oddballl, it's like, there's OTHERS, who *gets* it); like looking in the mirror. I wouldn't be in an intimate relationship with one though, as it would be too much me. Which, contrary to what you may believe, is not always a good thing.

INTP - good as friends, but, nothing more. Their dominant Ti makes me sometimes because they can get so stuck in a rut, a static model for which to evaluate the logic, and miss the evolving picture. "What's the framework?" they'll shout, while I say, "we won't know until we explore every angle, variable; the framework is constantly evolving!". Which frustrates them.

And, their secondary Ne clashes with my primary Ne because I want them to "keep up" and they want me to be more "stable, less random", so they get frustrated and I get bored. Great conversations though, but, there are times, where it's like pulling teeth to get them to engage. I need to bounce off of someone, and sometimes, it's like, ..........................

And, then there's the social awkwardness that, unlike INTJ which seems a deliberately executed thing, the INTP ones makes me a bit embarrassed for them.

ENTJ - my homies, my comrade. I like how they don't back down, so, it gives me a great outlet to explore my 'push, push, explore' side. Out of all the NTs, they seem the most practical and the least creative (Te leading and secondary N, and Ni instead of Ne), which makes for great balancing between us. And, it seems, they, like INTJs, humour my Ne much better than, say, Ne types (e.g. INTP). Ni/Ne just gels well. Maybe the novelty of each other?

I wouldn't want to date them though as it'll be a game of 'power', who's gonna put who in their place. And, my one-upmanship only gets added fuel by my ENTJ friends, which is not always healthy in a relationship setting.

INTJ - N-dominant, and it's a delicious interplay of Ne/Ni. They actually seem charmed by the wackiness that my Ne produces and have the most patience for it (of the 3 NTs). And, they take my ribbing them about their 'anal ways' in stride. I like how we're always trying to get the other to 'fall for a line'. I am also tickled to bits how seriously my INTJ (bf) takes my cockiness, almost exasperated with it.

Me: Dude, watch out for my Lexus through your window.
Him: Q, a 1993 beat-up Toyota Tercel is NOT a Lexus, no matter how much you say so.

Him: Telling yourself repeatedly that you're awesome, does not make you so!
Me: I think, therefore, I am, so yes it does!
Him: :steam:

We play a lot of practical jokes on each other. And, I can never get them to shut UP around me, which is a paradoxical novelty for me. They're the quietest, brooding, no-nonsense, focused people to the general environment, and one on one, I'm the one listening to their Ni in free-flow, with random weird tangents, like a little kid, looking at me every so often to see if I think it silly, too obscure, weird, and when I answer with my own off-beat commentary, they smile, feel validated and keep going. It's quite endearing. And, of course, the debates. Only issue, sometimes, they can get a little pussy bitch with their feelings and not know how to talk about them, yet brood on them, as I'm unknowingly sometimes callous with inter-personal stuff, when, it may seem on the surface that I'm quite warm. (The Fe/Fi clash) If only they'd just confront me right away with what they're feeling, you know, let me have it, rather than make elaborate stories of their personal sleight in their head; we'd then nip that much faster.

I.e, as an NTP, I feel more close with NTJs than NTPs...weird that. Maybe likely due to the novelty of it, while still retaining the NT.

 

[Salt n' pepper]

errm, I always say boobs if I dont know what to say so: boobs

I say corms.

 

[tinkerbell]

ENTJ - my homies, my comrade. I like how they don't back down, so, it gives me a great outlet to explore my 'push, push, explore' side. Out of all the NTs, they seem the most practical and the least creative (Te leading and secondary N, and Ni instead of Ne), which makes for great balancing between us. And, it seems, they, like INTJs, humour my Ne much better than, say, Ne types (e.g. INTP). Ni/Ne just gels well. Maybe the novelty of each other?

Don't let Jaguar hear you say tat, he was most put out on Friday that I would think such as thing as an ENTJ not being as creative as other NT (which I then expanded to SJ's too)....... I totally agree with you, much more practical, co-ordinators of resources is nailing them - they are good at that manouver stuff

If my INTJ pitches up I'll be sure to try and give it a bit of a go.... It sounds like you are having really good time.

 

[entropie]

I say corms.

Uaaah that's gross.

--------

One thing there is tho I witnessed. There happen to be a lot of woman, especially NTs on this site to whom relationships of any kind are a power struggle. I am not that aware of NTs in my country, therefore I can only speak for the ones on this site.

I have to say that I like a well-balanced relationship, in which power is distributed. That's what I mostly learnt from my cultural heritage aswell.

Dont know tho if I am wrong on that one and you are all just talking, while when push comes to show you'ld be exactly as democratic as that in a relationship.

 

[Qre:us]

Don't let Jaguar hear you say tat, he was most put out on Friday that I would think such as thing as an ENTJ not being as creative as other NT (which I then expanded to SJ's too)....... I totally agree with you, much more practical, co-ordinators of resources is nailing them - they are good at that manouver stuff

If my INTJ pitches up I'll be sure to try and give it a bit of a go.... It sounds like you are having really good time.

Just tell him not to cause such a ruckus over such a 'moot' point, given that MBTI is bullshit (to him) anyway.

At the end of the day, I'm generalizing to archetypes, as creativity is, of course varied, in reality, from person to person (not type to type), and creativity isn't only an N, nor Ne domain, but, interpreted so, if we speak of archetypes.

Yeah, NxJ are great for me....they allow me to play to my heart's content while looking out for daily life for me.

 

[Salt n' pepper]

Uaaah that's gross.

No more gross than a botched boob(-job).

 

[entropie]

No more gross than a botched boob(-job).

That's when you long out for the boobs to grab the remote instead to switch channels, right ?

 

[tinkerbell]

One thing there is tho I witnessed. There happen to be a lot of woman, especially NTs on this site to whom relationships of any kind are a power struggle.

I agree (and am guilty off), there is a battle of wills. I think it's rational women being less likely to kowtow to dominance of any sort... hence (and I speak for myself), I tend to serve it straight up - I tell people bluntly when they are not listening, ot kidding themselves on. The really annoying folks are the 20 blokes who insist they are right beacause they say so - not a shard of support for their argument. ENTPs argue - nearly as much as ENTJ - it's not personal...

 

[entropie]

Strangely tho, I am not used to it

 

[tinkerbell]

surely German women are no push over as standard?