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Thread: The ENTP shrug?

  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default The ENTP shrug?

    The ENTP shrug

    So I'm faced with a dilemma with one of my entps. 9/9 of course as why wouldn't he be the most problematic. I would like advice or suggestions on how to help 9/9 modify his responses to be more productive in a team environment.

    Funny, theoretically I should not waste time trying to fix a very broken person-however now it just isn't me. We now have team at work. He is our "project". Poor 9/9. Our team consists of his ESTP boss, his ESTP friend/lover, my ENTP best friend, and me. Why bother? We need to use him for his ideas. They really are that good.

    So 9/9 gets a steady stream of negative feedback from my way. It seems he can modify his behavior, at least on the surface, to be more close to a norm and improvements have been noted from across the company.

    The latest issue we are having is with something I see a lot of entps do. I call it the ENTP shrug. His version is more marked than most to the point of being a real problem.

    Infjs have a doorslam. I assume-please correct-that this is when you really, really burn your bridges with an infj. To borrow proteo's comparison, Fe has many circles, many levels of intimacy. Concentric circles where some can come in very deep and others are restricted to surface layers.

    An infj doorslam maybe is when you are permanently excluded from all of those layers. You are outside of the circle?

    So my entps do this too. If you push too hard or dig too much, or if they feel too out of control, they will temporarily push you out a bit. You get ejected backwards through several layers of Fe rings and held at arm's length, until they feel more in control of the situation. An enfp lashes out with Te to control the environment. My entps seem to retract like snails or turtles until the environment stabilizes a bit. The person external gets shunned a bit, excluded. Who knows-maybe they need time to think? Only another entp can really understand the inner workings. I can only observe from outside and guess.

    So pretty normal stuff-after an hour or even a day my entps will re-engage, reply, decide what to do. (Enfps notice this as we are over dependent upon external affirmation)

    Problematically 9/9 diverges here. He just never replies, never responds. If called, he says he is busy, but I call BS on this one as he will respond very quickly given the right topic. He sits waiting, observing, but not interacting? Like he is afraid to say anything?

    Oddly my best friend entp says when Fe kicks in she feels torn-she wants to be terse, bitter and cruel, but instead gets calmer and calmer and calmer, nicer and nicer on the surface. All the turmoil can't surface externally-mentally it is like Fe just will not let it out?? Her words not mine, so please forgive if it is inaccurate.

    It does make me wonder if he gets to the point where he doesn't reply as he feels-I dunno-toungue tied??? Does fe and ti really fight that much??? I have no idea what I am talking about so again please don't take offense.

    My entp also mentioned maybe he has problems processing the frustration, so withdraws to do this in his own time frame.

    This causes issues as if affronted, even slightly, he will not respond to email, will not reply to calls, will not engage in discussion. However he is a research scientist and we very much need his insight and his contribution. But he gets caught up shunning the shit out of people.


    He does this a little to me, but far, far more to others.
    So questions:

    1) Does this sound familiar?
    2) how can we get him to relax the defensive barrier once built?
    3) How can we avoid provoking the defensive response?
    4) Can he be taught alternate ways of responding, that are less destructive to teamwork and communication?


    Much thanks for any advice you can offer.

    (As a side note-9/9 just sent an emailing just to say thank you to someone who mailed a package for him. This-this is like some sort of miracle...)

  2. #2
    Member HaHa's Avatar
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    1) Yes this sounds familiar.
    2) In a work environment, the best idea is to back off. I very much understand the tounge tying idea. When I'm uncomfortable in a situation, I tend to stop instinctively trusting my intuition and use my far less developed feeling. This leads to me coming off as very bland, as I attempt to disappear into the background until I feel more comfortable.
    3) Don't push at him on a personal level. On an intellectual level absolutely, the only thing that could possibly provoke the response intellectually is if he feels that his ideas are being ignored.
    4) No, we don't respond to instruction. And we REALLY hate being told what to do without a self-evident reason (to us through our intuition).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    ...she feels torn-she wants to be terse, bitter and cruel, but instead gets calmer and calmer and calmer, nicer and nicer on the surface...
    thats the only thing rang a yes bell in my head...i just skimmed thru though...


    ill reread it tomorrow...i need to go study

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    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Oh, boy, do I know this routine! My suggestions after working closely with one for 10 years:
    Keep your questions to the point.
    Get personal affirmation elsewhere. He's just not interested and it's too demanding.
    You will get more personal affirmation if you mix up funny/entertaining with the work. But if you can't be funny, be smart and to the point.
    If you can't be funny, smart, and to the point, show cleavage. There has to be some entertainment in it for him.
    Yes, if he knows you will ignore him anyway, he will stop talking -- but ditto if your questions constantly reflect some personal problem like anxiety disorder or just wanting attention.
    Don't even try to tell them what to do. It doesn't work, even if you are trying to tell them what to do because if they don't do it, they will suffer consequences. They would rather suffer the consequences than feel like they are being bossed.

  5. #5
    Member HaHa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Oh, boy, do I know this routine! My suggestions after working closely with one for 10 years:
    Keep your questions to the point.
    Get personal affirmation elsewhere. He's just not interested and it's too demanding.
    You will get more personal affirmation if you mix up funny/entertaining with the work. But if you can't be funny, be smart and to the point.
    If you can't be funny, smart, and to the point, show cleavage. There has to be some entertainment in it for him.
    Yes, if he knows you will ignore him anyway, he will stop talking -- but ditto if your questions constantly reflect some personal problem like anxiety disorder or just wanting attention.
    Don't even try to tell them what to do. It doesn't work, even if you are trying to tell them what to do because if they don't do it, they will suffer consequences. They would rather suffer the consequences than feel like they are being bossed.
    Excellent advice. I INFJs...

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    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
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    Maybe he's cool and everyone else is broken.

    Maybe he really is the devil.

    Maybe someone at work just bugs the ever living crap out of him.

    *Shrug*
    Quote Originally Posted by pippi View Post
    Fiver is correct, it is freeing to not have to impress someone, to be accepted for who you really are.

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    Senior Member Valuable_Money's Avatar
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    I have on one occassion gone through a whole week sitting alone and brooding about how much I hate my freinds(one in particlar) and how they never appreciate me bla bla bla emo emo emo GRRRRRRR!!!!! I convinced myself that I was never going to speak to them again.

    Then after about a week of this I run into one of them at one of our usual haunts and I end up helping him instal a hottub at his sisters house. This leads to going to a barbeque at another freinds house, then us all going to see a softball game(our crappy local leauge, its mostly just an excuse for everyone in town to get drunk).

    I honostly beared no more of those harsh feelings towards him or any of my other freinds and they never even knew I had them.


    As far as Fe and Ti fighting, yes. Ive talked myself out of so many impassioned rants where I told people "How I really feel". Quite personaly I like it that way, I hate it when people cant stop to think of the implications of their own actions, or they refuse to try and understand why people do stuff that pisses them off.

    EDIT: Now that I think about its not like they fight at all, its more like a filter. All of Fe has to go through Ti, there Ti lets all the good "socialy acceptable" feelings pass through and it stops all of the bad ones(the ones that get you in jail and cause your girlfreind to leave you).
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh? wgah'nagl fhtagn

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    Senior Member SerengetiBetty's Avatar
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    He's just not that into you - or the topic.


    1) Yep, sounds very familiar
    2) I don't think ENTPs hold grudges that long - at least I don't. So perhaps this is less of a matter of him being defensive and more about him not being interested. It sounds like he's given his ideas but really if he doesn't see the value of the general topic, I doubt he's going to be that committed to continuing to give ideas.
    3) Maybe by stop assuming he's being defensive
    4) Hahahaha. Good luck with that.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Typology's Avatar
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    What is 9/9? I read that entire thing and realized after 'reading' it that I had actually been focusing on that the entire time. Hmm.
    Only after disaster can we be resurrected.

  10. #10
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    this really sounds like you are treating this ENTP like a performing monkey... maybe if you want to avoid the shrugs you might need to get out his face and let him work in the way that allows him to make the very valued contribution he seems to be making.

    Lis

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