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Thread: The ENTP shrug?

  1. #71
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    i think you are missing something. dont know what, but something.

    what kind of relationship do you have with this man? describe it

    for the stuff he says, you reallly have to know his motivations behind it... called his long term girlfriend of seven years "the woman who lives in my house"...i could see myself saying that. hell i'd prolly say that in front of her. but it doesn't mean anything...just a joke

    you better be sure 110% sure that he is sincere. once your sure, check again

    -can you fire him? he just might be playing it nice with you
    -does not want anything to do with you except the bare minimum
    -this could also be an example of what your ENTP girl said:
    good call thatguy. you found the odd point.

    No I cannot fire him-although i could have fed info at any point to the right people to get him fired, given the HR mess he narrowly escaped from. We are too small a company to risk lawsuits due to sexual harrassment, so HR has a very narrow window of tolerance there. If I did have a personal vendetta to destroy the guy, I could have done this. I have been angry at him a few times. He has been a douche.

    the girlfriend comment was not made in front of me-it was made in front of several groups at several different times-not in a pleasent joking way.

    I dont know why or what I did, but he listens to me when he will not listen to other people. I declined his advances, I directly confront him on his unethical behavior, I try and support his projects-his ideas. I have shunned him for months at a time-and he always returns and is kind to me-far more kind than he is to anyone else. I dont know why. I can make guesses.

  2. #72
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    probably not, at this point.

    so fine, he does the gestures and everyone can sit back and smugly pat themselves on the back on how they changed him. And like Monster said, he could be the director by the end of the year, and then god help them all.

    Please. No one is irreplaceable.
    I need his brain and input for another six months to complete the project. As for director, he would be a scientific director and not lead people-just develop ideas.

    It can be hard to find good talent especially given the size of company we are and industry we are in. Amar is right on about the facade. It will do from a functional perspective, as long as it allows his contribution at work to continue.

  3. #73
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    probably not, at this point.


    so fine, he does the gestures and everyone can sit back and smugly pat themselves on the back on how they changed him. And like Monster said, he could be the director by the end of the year, and then god help them all.
    Agreed, god help em all. But I wasn't suggesting him to change who he was. I was suggesting he would play the ENTP game of social politics. I agree that in his current state, he'll resent people for having to play this game, but if someone were to be able to show him how to do it without having to sacrifice who he is and have him notice the difference it could make, the benefit of having a team back you instead of working against you...maybe I'm optimistic by nature, but I think that might just work to redirect his energy from resentment to productivity.

    I'm not suggesting manipulation, nor everyone being smug about him becoming a meek little puppy. Let's face it, hell will freeze over first. But I am suggesting that maybe someone can show him how to work within the system put upon you in the most creative and productive way without having to sacrifice who you are.

    Edit: I never thought I'd hear myself advocate insincerity
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  4. #74
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Agreed, god help em all. But I wasn't suggesting him to change who he was. I was suggesting he would play the ENTP game of social politics. I agree that in his current state, he'll resent people for having to play this game, but if someone were to be able to show him how to do it without having to sacrifice who he is and have him notice the difference it could make, the benefit of having a team back you instead of working against you...maybe I'm optimistic by nature, but I think that might just work to redirect his energy from resentment to productivity.

    I'm not suggesting manipulation, nor everyone being smug about him becoming a meek little puppy. Let's face it, hell will freeze over first. But I am suggesting that maybe someone can show him how to work within the system put upon you in the most creative and productive way without having to sacrifice who you are.

    yes. this.

  5. #75
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    ...maybe I'm optimistic by nature, but I think that might just work to redirect his energy from resentment to productivity.
    Yes, perhaps a little optimistic because it was my understanding that he is in fact productive, just not polite.
    Edit: I never thought I'd hear myself advocate insincerity
    hahahaha!!!! too cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    yes. this.
    Ok, I've (we've) said enough. You are going to do what you want anyway, so there is no point for me to continue. Good luck and let us know how it goes!!!

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    good call [b] thatguy[b]. you found the odd point.
    .



  7. #77
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Yes, perhaps a little optimistic because it was my understanding that he is in fact productive, just not polite.

    Ok, I've (we've) said enough. You are going to do what you want anyway, so there is no point for me to continue. Good luck and let us know how it goes!!!
    there lies the problem-he actually isnt very productive, as nobody will work with him.

    I shall forge ahead and again thanks for the lively discussion and commentary, as you guys teach me everytime we talk.

    unless you are thatthereguy over yonder. see what happens when you mix pronouns up?

  8. #78
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    if you come up with a solution tho and a better understanding of entps, I'ld be intrested too, cause I lack that aswell.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #79
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post

    Narcissitic Personality Disorder.
    Nope. Ego defense mechanism. I wonder what could possibly cause a person to get defensive in such a manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Our company didnt crush, him, god knows what caused him to be this way.
    In that light I rate it five stars.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    He does this a little to me, but far, far more to others.
    So questions:

    1) Does this sound familiar?
    2) how can we get him to relax the defensive barrier once built?
    3) How can we avoid provoking the defensive response?
    4) Can he be taught alternate ways of responding, that are less destructive to teamwork and communication?

    1) I can be very stubborn when I feel I've been wronged. I will, in my head, go through the 'fuck them' script and mentally discard them from my life, only to have them reach out, we talk it out, and all is forgotten. I don't hold grudges unless you have wronged a dear loved one, or tried to manipulate/use me. Then, I'm focusing on setting up the steps to best deliver my 'poetic justice' to said person.

    2)-3) IGNORE! Cut off the very context that allows him the reaction of shunning in the first place. He knows his position within the company, and the asset that he is, if he is an unhealthy ENTP, he is getting off on seeing so many people get their panties in a knot through his assholish behaviour. It feeds into his ego that he's causing such a domino effect. Stop feeding the beast.

    Give the most minimal feedback to him and his ideas when presented in such a deliberately rude manner. And, give positive reinforcement once after a few of such 'misses', he starts warming up (i.e. appealing to their logic, in a way that feeds their ego/affirmation of their ideas). Do not try to tell him why being polite, etc., will work in his favour. The very act of telling him, will make his unhealthy self rebel. Let him 'find out' for himself (and guide that process). Also, being polite as a means to an end is more (than likely) the ENTP's (unhealthy) cup of tea, hence, only end result consequences will work.

    Finally, if he's a true ENTP, he will need that external feedback, things to bounce ideas off of, direct you OWN behaviour so that you engage that Ne of his ONLY when he's not a prick, otherwise, offer him silence. Take his idea with barely a nod, and just implement, no other positive reinforcement (it will make him realize the parallel of why when he receives a work from another, without acknowledging their effort, may seem harsh).

    I.e., allow him to modify his own behaviour (be a guide only as far as you modifying your own behaviour accordingly to allow him a clear cut negative verses positive reinforcement), do not put your hand in the lion's den, you will come away more harshly bitten, in your aims to soothe and pet, than you went in.

    4) Get the team to follow through not appeasing him. When his feedback loop is depleted and he associates that as a consequence of his own decorum/behaviour (repeated trials giving same results - reliability testing), he will change his ways, or leave. Either way, it's not going to do any good trying to get an unhealthy ENTP balanced through others intervening, we're fiercely independent, and we smell 'manipulation' like a lion smells blood. It will not end well.

    Control your own feedback you give him in the direction that you want the change. I know being Ne+Fi, it's sometimes hard not to intervene in making someone better their inter-personal relationships for the greater good of all, but, cut yourself and your own motivations out of it. You will be much more successful in helping him. Otherwise, he will quickly tire of your 'giving good advice' ways.

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