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Thread: The ENTP shrug?

  1. #21
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    I was wondering about this too. What does this look like from the ENTP's perspective?

    Because one issue I can have with extroverted feelers is that they often don't know when to back off. I'll say it directly and repeatedly, and it's like they don't hear me.

    Exactly, how people are creative is sometimes quite personal and isn't always a team sport.

    Collective thinking although I support it, I can also swamp it to bits.

    Top of mind in the first 3 minutes I can usually fry most other brains....

    Not sure how to make it work, perhaps turning up to the last 10 minutes of the session means I don't have to sit through other peoples mental constipation which I find mind numbingly dull.

    Lis

  2. #22
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Fuck yes. I can't stress this enough. I say the same thing a million different ways a million different times, but it's only when I finally blow up and scream harsh obscenities that I'm finally heard

    Oh my god! YES!!!

  3. #23
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post

    (As a side note-9/9 just sent an emailing just to say thank you to someone who mailed a package for him. This-this is like some sort of miracle...)

    And why is a thank you email so important? It's just another email to wade through. I really resent having to do all this social pleasantry crap... the hello, the how are you, the how was your weekend when I really couldn't care any less about you or your wife's sciatica. I like to get to the point - is the project done or not? Why is the world so dependent on such trivial affirmations that really affirm nothing except for the recipient's insecurity?

  4. #24
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    And why is a thank you email so important? It's just another email to wade through. I really resent having to do all this social pleasantry crap... the hello, the how are you, the how was your weekend when I really couldn't care any less about you or your wife's sciatica. I like to get to the point - is the project done or not? Why is the world so dependent on such trivial affirmations that really affirm nothing except for the recipient's insecurity?
    The thought of a world without this stuff is enough to make me cream my undies (and I can hear the ESFJs screaming from here).

  5. #25
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    And why is a thank you email so important? It's just another email to wade through. I really resent having to do all this social pleasantry crap... the hello, the how are you, the how was your weekend when I really couldn't care any less about you or your wife's sciatica. I like to get to the point - is the project done or not? Why is the world so dependent on such trivial affirmations that really affirm nothing except for the recipient's insecurity?
    Correct, imo. wtf@'thank you'e-mailexpectationpotential

    There have been times that i've received such email and wondered if the sender pissed someone off and is trying increase friendship strength points with others to counter their mishap. Kinda has the scent of insecurity to its visual.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  6. #26
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Ne-Monster;791487
    Oddly my best friend entp says when Fe kicks in she feels torn-she wants to be terse, bitter and cruel, but instead gets calmer and calmer and calmer, nicer and nicer on the surface. All the turmoil can't surface externally-mentally it is like Fe just will not let it out?? Her words not mine, so please forgive if it is inaccurate.
    [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    EDIT: If he's not uninterested, he's processing everything. Listening and gradually coming to a discovery.

    Yes, but again this is valid for relationships ... not work. Tiltyred offered some good, practical advice. That would probably be your best bet to solve the problem.
    My entp friend said this in the context of work-she is a project manager of several hundred folks. It's funny as I am the product manager and I show up a raging tyrant and she shows up as "mother russia". I used to get so pissed at her about this until she explained the above. Now we tagteam people with the approach. I show up tyrannical and she calms me, and explains to the group how we can resolve the issue-since they are all freaked out by the fact that I am angry. It's like a game-an amazingly effective one. Not sure you really can segregate work from the rest of life that easily.

    Thanks much for the processing perspective-that is a very good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I push people away when I just don't want to deal with it. I'm not afraid of anything, but if I smell drama it physically looks like a huge mountain that I will have to scale with a 200 lb boulder on my back. I simply don't want to be bothered with it. I think about all the pieces in the downtime and break the mountain into a series of smaller climbs. But oftentimes, I forget to report back. Once it's settled in my head, I assume it's settled in everyone else's. And I am already bored with it and talking about it is the last thing I want to do. It's already done and decided and I want to move on..
    This may the case. So how can I use this info? nothing with respect to him-forcing him to change and so on. However for other folks, I can advise-"give him space, and check back in a week, he is forgetful, so likely he isnt a douche, he just forgot to respond" They stopped being pissed at him, the team regroups. As always, given 16 personality types, folks see things through there own "lenses" and will interpret his motive or rational through what they would do. I can help recalibrate thier "lenses" a touch. I guess i could also drop him an email and say-do you realize when you do this, people misread as X, maybe you want to consider that and drop them an email saying you will be in touch later.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    But I think if you want him to act like a team member, you should treat him as one. I'm sure he can smell your "behavior modification" tactics from a mile away. It's insulting. Just tell him straight out that he's acting like a dick and no one wants to work with him. So he better come to work with a smile on his face, or else.

    Or do what Tilty said: just get to the point or lighten up the atmosphere. But right now, it seems like the whole situation is too... heavy.
    haha, I call him a dick fairly often. I specifically call him on his behavior. He doesnt mind at all. Actually with him directly-if I need him to change something-I specifically explain it to him, then explain why changing that aspect will enhance our ability to get his ideas implemented. However as I said above-more importantly-I need to help others interpret what he is doing correctly. On some level I think ENTPs face a challenge here. Over and over again the world views your actions through totally the wrong lens and then assigns you motives that are incorrect. It sucks, so if I can explain to the others, he is an ENTP, these are the awesome things he can bring to the team, however these other things are part of the package, it removes much frustration.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    I was wondering about this too. What does this look like from the ENTP's perspective?

    Because one issue I can have with extroverted feelers is that they often don't know when to back off. I'll say it directly and repeatedly, and it's like they don't hear me.
    Sorry if I didnt clarify-he mostly works with estps and other NTs. He is currently at war with an INTP. Internally he clashes with ISTJs. These are where the complaints come from. I am the only NF he sees and he really likes me. He thinks I am nuts but has told me several times he appreciates my advice-specifically "I love your advice" when I told him I would stop sending him advice if he wanted, as I didnt want to bug him. I send him emails, often he will not reply, but his behavior will be modified. That's his choice, not mine. I dont really think I am the NF you guys are used to dealing with.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Exactly, how people are creative is sometimes quite personal and isn't always a team sport.

    Collective thinking although I support it, I can also swamp it to bits.

    Top of mind in the first 3 minutes I can usually fry most other brains....

    Not sure how to make it work, perhaps turning up to the last 10 minutes of the session means I don't have to sit through other peoples mental constipation which I find mind numbingly dull.

    Lis
    This is why we love ENTPs and value thier contribution. It is also why entps thrive independently and as consultants. He has made the choice to work in corporate america though.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    And why is a thank you email so important? It's just another email to wade through. I really resent having to do all this social pleasantry crap... the hello, the how are you, the how was your weekend when I really couldn't care any less about you or your wife's sciatica. I like to get to the point - is the project done or not? Why is the world so dependent on such trivial affirmations that really affirm nothing except for the recipient's insecurity?
    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Correct, imo. wtf@'thank you'e-mailexpectationpotential

    There have been times that i've received such email and wondered if the sender pissed someone off and is trying increase friendship strength points with others to counter their mishap. Kinda has the scent of insecurity to its visual.
    Okay so this was a huge deal for me-his response. I specifically asked him to start doing this. Realize I currently have 123 unanswered emails and 78 unlistened to phone messages. I am a disaster at responding to questions. I am not celebrating any holidays this year, as I am rebelling. I am the last person in the world who would enforce Fe social pleseantries.

    However in these cases his ass can step up and fake it. I requested he do so. He is offsite. He will send a request to another person which could take several hours out of thier day-time they put off normal job tasks, that still have to be completed later. They are doing his work as a favor, to help him. It technically is not thier job to do these things. No one has been resourced to do these tasks. Often the folks doing the work are ISTJs or SFs of some sort or another. So the least he can do, is send a quick Thanks.

    To rationalize for him I explained that by doing so, they are much more likely to do things for him in the future. If he wants his ideas to move forward, on some level he has to play by the rules of the social group-stupid or not, faked appreciation or real, it will help his cause and he will accomplish his goals.

    Again thanks much for all of your honest, critical feedback. Please let me know what horrifically annoying things to avoid doing as well. If I know, I can step around it, but otherwsie I do what comes natural.

    Also-if he was the way he had been in december, he would be unemployed. If he keeps improving he will become a director before the end of the year.

  7. #27
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    This may the case. So how can I use this info? nothing with respect to him-forcing him to change and so on. However for other folks, I can advise-"give him space, and check back in a week, he is forgetful, so likely he isnt a douche, he just forgot to respond" They stopped being pissed at him, the team regroups.
    Just add that you need a response when you send your original email. "please let me know when this is completed" or "I would like a response, in either direction, by Friday before noon". State clearly what you want. Tell others to do the same. Send requests flagged for follow up reminders.

    On some level I think ENTPs face a challenge here. Over and over again the world views your actions through totally the wrong lens and then assigns you motives that are incorrect. It sucks, so if I can explain to the others, he is an ENTP, these are the awesome things he can bring to the team, however these other things are part of the package, it removes much frustration.
    Yes, but then who is explaining to the ENTP that these pleasantries are part of the package, as well? And why should we have to take 2 steps to meet you if you won't take 2 steps to meet us? I think personal crap should be out of the window in the workplace. Everyone who works for me knows this upon signing on with me. My workplace, my rules - finally.

    I dont really think I am the NF you guys are used to dealing with.


    hahahaha...

    He has made the choice to work in corporate america though.
    But what does that mean exactly? So did the weepy person, and the introvert. We all have to take measures to be in the middle. Yes, we shouldn't be allowed to be so "gruff", but should others be allowed to be so sensitive? As project manager, you can't always feed into the emotional needs of some while requesting that others ignore theirs. Maybe it would help if you instructed your crew to man up a little bit more.


    To rationalize for him I explained that by doing so, they are much more likely to do things for him in the future. If he wants his ideas to move forward, on some level he has to play by the rules of the social group-stupid or not, faked appreciation or real, it will help his cause and he will accomplish his goals.
    When I ask someone to do something for me, it comes with pleases and thank yous. The person either accepts the task or not. And after, I have to go back and re-suck his d*ck? Not interested. Who made these social rules and why can't they be changed?

  8. #28
    Member HaHa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    When I ask someone to do something for me, it comes with pleases and thank yous. The person either accepts the task or not. And after, I have to go back and re-suck his d*ck? Not interested. Who made these social rules and why can't they be changed?

  9. #29
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    hahahaha...


    Quote: Jenocyde
    >>>>>He has made the choice to work in corporate america though.

    But what does that mean exactly? "

    It's an excuse to behave like a pushy brat who can dictate behvaioural modification and try and strong arm someone to work in a way against thier character..... Clearly most NT's would see through it, humour it fo a while before they just brickwall and become unco-operative.


  10. #30
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    But what does that mean exactly? So did the weepy person, and the introvert. We all have to take measures to be in the middle. Yes, we shouldn't be allowed to be so "gruff", but should others be allowed to be so sensitive? As project manager, you can't always feed into the emotional needs of some while requesting that others ignore theirs. Maybe it would help if you instructed your crew to man up a little bit more.

    When I ask someone to do something for me, it comes with pleases and thank yous. The person either accepts the task or not. And after, I have to go back and re-suck his d*ck? Not interested. Who made these social rules and why can't they be changed?
    So keep in mind-he never says please or think you in the first place. He demands and then is angry and confused when others do not respond. He is not like you guys here in this manner-you guys are awesome-he is a very extreme example of entp behaving badly.

    Hysterically, My best friend entp just walked in. I told her about this thread, and the fact that he said thank you. She also sat in a state of mild shock.."He said thank you??? Really? Holy shit? He is changing..."

    To address the first paragraph, every company has a corporate culture-sort of a distilled down version of society perhaps? By agreeing to work at a company, you get stuck having to find a place in that particular culture. You can walk away at anytime.

    However depending upon the industry, it can be stilted and not represent society at large. We are 50% ISTJ, 25% INTP, 10% ESTP and a bunch of leftovers-mostly NTs with some SFs thrown in. However ISTJs can be amazingly passive agressive with that sweet tertiary Fi. So an obnoxious demand, triggers a passive agressive response, no progress, and as a company we get fucked. It is less about hurt feelings, and more about recognition of thier contribution (the ISTJs at least). I already have been calling them on thier shit though.

    Most days at work I feel like a translator.

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