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  1. #41
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
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    My son and his wife couldn't make it work. They were living together for about 3 years, he married her and a little over a year later she had someone else. Dumped him after 2 years but not before having chump no#3 on the line.

    Depends on the people involved, absolutely, but in their case the relationship was a trainwreck.
    "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay one invincible summer."
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    A Christian's life may be the only Bible some people ever read.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    What is funny though, is these train wrecks. We don't ask for them or to even be a part of them yet they happen.

    Good thing is at some point, we actually view them as a blessing as it is only when we are at our lowest and most vulnerable, that we truly see ourselves for what we are. Mere human beings. We change our perceptions of ourselves and we attract the people who are like our new selves, and so we start over again, with the best of intentions and can only hope. Next time we can strive to be in a nurturing relationship where our wants and needs are taken care of.
    If they are not, then hopefully we are strong enough to walk away and to find someone who is willing to help us in that area we feel not at ease with.

    Amen.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  3. #43
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    You guys have chosen to marry each other, so you've been willing to commit and you want to make things work. You also love each other. You also can recognize the things about your wife that you appreciate. Out of the two types, I think it is more often the Ns that get frustrated at incompatability, so right now it's looking like you've got some good starting points to begin from. 8 years is usually about the time that people are taking account and realizing who it is that they actually married and beginning to tally up what issues keep coming up over and over. Personal maturity and the willingness to flex for the other person are the biggest factors in compatability, even more than basic type. MBTI is useful for you to be aware of your different perspectives as a shortcut, but really shouldn't have to be an predictor of doom!

    So now...My guess is that your wife needs you to verbalize more of what is going on internally (that was a very big divide between me and my ESTJ boyfriend). She just needs enough information to work with so she knows where she's at...She also probably would like to hear appreciation for the great things you do see about her verbalized more than once, even if to you it seems redundant and seems to call into question your sincerity in saying it the first time...Also if you are like many NTPs you probably have many projects on the go at once and you shift between all of them. She might like to see you finish one of them. SJs are very service oriented and one of the best ways to make your love for her felt is to do something for her that she's been wanting you to finish.

    Another thing I found in the F/T divide was that Ts tend to either 1) suck things up that bother them mildly, believing it is their own problem and not bring them up unless provoked 2) for big things, change the situation so it is no longer an issue. Fs tend to 1) suck things up hoping that the other person will notice what adjustments they are making for them and reciprocate 2) bring up the problems hoping to have discussion and come to a solution that works for both. Ts feel this is redundant, needless, oversensitive and nitpicking. Fs feel Ts behaviour is inflexible, it blindsides them by not verbalizing things till it is too late to fix them, and it saves up ammunition for when provoked but normally would say that those annoyances aren't a big deal. Emotions affect Ts interactions and physical responses, but they are often unaware of how unless they choose to focus on what those emotions even are.

    Also on the F/T thing - you tend to need to process stressful situations alone, whereas we tend to seek out a sympathetic listener to clear away emotional excess before we can take action. Don't rush her through that stage by offering solutions before she's done venting. You really are doing something effective just by being willing to listen and act comforting. She also may feel bad that you don't turn to her when you are going through something or that you aren't verbalizing what's going on with you and will become a little clingy which may get annoying. Just let her know as much as you comfortably can and explain that she is actually doing something great by giving you some cave time to get it figured out. It will make it much easier for her to give you space without checking that things between you are okay.

    For the P/J thing - you may have to state your wishes or needs more directly than you are used to doing, rather than wishing she'd pick up on what you want. She may appreciate you gathering up all of your bills and papers so that she can do the chequebook/billpaying/credit card thing more easily. Surprise her now and then by taking responsibility for getting some job or errand done that usually falls to her because she cares about it more. If there's a certain way she wants something done, try to find out what it is and surprise her by paying attention to doing it that way. Make definite plans together sometime for a date and stick with the plan.

    These are all gross generalizations, but are some of my guesses for where you could start. Do you have any other information that you think you would feel okay about sharing here?

  4. #44
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus might be worth looking at if you haven't already. Some of it is dumb, but it can be fairly helpful when the couple is T/Male and F/Female.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #45
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Or a book called Fuck it. The ultimate spiritual way. By John C. Parkin.

    (Very interesting and comical read)
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  6. #46
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I went to spend the weekend with old friends recently who are an INTP (him) ESFJ (her) couple. It was really funny actually I first took the MBTI test about four years ago, but Ive only been really fascinated for a bit over a year. It turned out that these friends of mine and a lot of mutual friends had all become fascinated by MBTI a couple of years ago and are still interested, so we spent half the weekend talking about typology and all our mutual friends types!

    I used to live with her and I already had her pegged as an ESFJ I probably wouldnt have been able to guess what he was. They have had plenty of problems in their marriage theyve been married 5 years and have split up and got back together on and off but at least theyve worked at it, unlike some other couples I know. But I do wonder if theyre going to succeed in making it work in the long run. The main thing that hits you is she nags him ALL THE TIME and she also criticizes him even when hes actually there. It always worries me a bit when someone criticizes their spouse to a third party and ESPECIALLY if the spouse is actually present! I really think that hes just developed the art of tuning her out a large percentage of the time.

    Honestly, as much as I care about her (Ive known both of them for about seven years, and lived with her for a year), I would go insane if I were married to her (haha, besides the fact that were both heterosexual women!). Sometimes I even wonder how I managed to be her roommate for a year, because she nagged me a lot and made a lot of incorrect assumptions about me. I tend to be a bit of a doormat anyway, which annoyed her, but it annoyed her even more when I tried to stand up to her. The thing I find weird is, some of the things shell say about her husband in his hearing strike me as really hurtful (maybe its water off a ducks back for an INTP?), and wouldnt you think an F would realise that? She does acknowledge about herself that shes too sensitive it seems that he manages to unwittingly hurt her feelings a lot (mostly by being quippy or a bit pedantic), and his reaction is much less obvious but to me it seems that a lot of the things she says to him are definitely hurtful

    Despite all, they do seem to love each other and maybe thats what will make it work in the long run. But I still have misgivings.

  7. #47
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    im an intp married to an esfj and I'd agree it is very hard to get along and find common ground. We've been married 5 yrs and I'm looking for ways to find some common ground which there seems to be none of between us.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I went to spend the weekend with old friends recently who are an INTP (him) ESFJ (her) couple. It was really funny actually I first took the MBTI test about four years ago, but Ive only been really fascinated for a bit over a year. It turned out that these friends of mine and a lot of mutual friends had all become fascinated by MBTI a couple of years ago and are still interested, so we spent half the weekend talking about typology and all our mutual friends types!

    I used to live with her and I already had her pegged as an ESFJ I probably wouldnt have been able to guess what he was. They have had plenty of problems in their marriage theyve been married 5 years and have split up and got back together on and off but at least theyve worked at it, unlike some other couples I know. But I do wonder if theyre going to succeed in making it work in the long run. The main thing that hits you is she nags him ALL THE TIME and she also criticizes him even when hes actually there. It always worries me a bit when someone criticizes their spouse to a third party and ESPECIALLY if the spouse is actually present! I really think that hes just developed the art of tuning her out a large percentage of the time.

    Honestly, as much as I care about her (Ive known both of them for about seven years, and lived with her for a year), I would go insane if I were married to her (haha, besides the fact that were both heterosexual women!). Sometimes I even wonder how I managed to be her roommate for a year, because she nagged me a lot and made a lot of incorrect assumptions about me. I tend to be a bit of a doormat anyway, which annoyed her, but it annoyed her even more when I tried to stand up to her. The thing I find weird is, some of the things shell say about her husband in his hearing strike me as really hurtful (maybe its water off a ducks back for an INTP?), and wouldnt you think an F would realise that? She does acknowledge about herself that shes too sensitive it seems that he manages to unwittingly hurt her feelings a lot (mostly by being quippy or a bit pedantic), and his reaction is much less obvious but to me it seems that a lot of the things she says to him are definitely hurtful

    Despite all, they do seem to love each other and maybe thats what will make it work in the long run. But I still have misgivings.
    Wow that sounds alot like my marriage, except I'm more of an ass. When someone pesters me to the point of exhaustion (usually only my wife succeeds at this) I will tell them straight up how they're acting and what I think their problems are since they feel the need to harp on my issues.

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