[MBTI General] Pathology?? Judge-y INFP in my life...

[Kangirl]

So. Was having a long convo with an INFP friend today. INFP friend works in the film industry, directing, at this point, children in the 8-12 age range. We were discussing a new child who my friend is having great difficulty directing/getting through to. Friend likes to give 'homework' to these kids - open-ended stuff like "come up with 3 different ways to play X scene - how else could Y react" etc. This kid is unable to do this and apparently just freezes up when asked.

I said this somewhat reminded me of me when I was little (and now, to an extent). I appreciate and crave directness. I would also have had trouble with "hmmm, come up with 3 other random options" - in the sense that I would have reacted much better to a specific request "this time, let's play X as angry" etc. I could have *done* the former, but it would have pissed me off a little and made me wonder what the person assigning the task really wanted from me (apparently this kid appears very eager to get 'the right' answer, as well).

Friend then told me he wondered what had happened to the kid to make him this way, and then what had happened to me to make me how I am. My back went ever so slightly up. I asked "do you think there's something wrong/pathological in the behaviour"? The answer was yes. Definite yes.

I'm just surprised I got this from an INFP. Imo my friend is reacting partly out of ego - he is normally extremely good with kids, and with working with kids in this context, and this one has thrown him for a loop.

Thoughts? Is it pathological to have an extreme preference for direct instructions rather than more open-ended thought-assignments? I.e. Do I need to go see a shrink cuz I'm an ENTJ?

EDIT:

Just wanted to add, my own reaction to this is based mostly on efficiency. Open ended things like this frustrate me because I think "you obviously want something from me, want me to learn something or think something etc., so why not just ask me specifically instead of wasting all this time and energy trying to coax it out of me? JUST FRICKEN TELL/ASK ME! Just wanted to explain my reaction. Also wanted to say that yes, I realize there is value in the open ended approach. Definitely. It just sometimes makes me antsy.

 

[heart]

That person is just being egocentric.

 

[Orangey]

No, there's nothing pathological in that behavior. I used to give lots of extremely open-ended assignments to my university students, and usually at least half of them (sometimes more) were utterly thrown and asked me (extroverts immediately, introverts usually later by email) if I could provide more specific instructions as to what I'm looking for. I am usually happy to oblige, and nowadays I just go ahead and give two assignment descriptions- one really vague, and the other explicitly providing more precise details for those that need them.

Nothing wrong with that, it's just a different way of thinking.

 

[Laurie]

I work in a virtual troupe. It's very interesting to see who is good with improv and who isn't. I wouldn't do too well with open ended questions like that, either. You give me a script and I can nail it. It's actually interesting that he thinks that, working in that industry. You can even see it on Leno and stuff, good actors get stage shy having to be all "unscripted"

Sounds like an INFP "my way or no way" loop.

 

[Kangirl]

As a student, Orangey, thank you for the direct instructions as well as the vague ones! I am definitely that idiot with my hand up going "but what do you WANT??" when I get vague instructions.

Heart - I agree, but was also thinking it might be something else, some strange INFP thing I don't 'get'.

It's actually interesting that he thinks that, working in that industry.

Apparently it's a different animal directing kids vs adults. This kid is also a brilliant mimic - the best my friend has ever seen. So my friend is of the opinion that mimicry isnt 'acting' and is now getting, imo, kind of stuck on the idea/concept of teaching the kid how to 'act'. Whereas imo, if he's doing in front of the camera what you want him to be doing, it doesn't matter if he's mimicking OR acting!

 

[heart]

Heart - I agree, but was also thinking it might be something else, some strange INFP thing I don't 'get'...

Yeah I know, but no. This person is just stuck in egocentric viewpoint. How awful for her students, to be made to feel badly if they need the lesson more defined. Usually it's the other way around, a P type feeling defective for not fitting with J style things, but it's no less bad when it's a J type being made to feel less than for not fitting with P. jmo.

 

[ThatGirl]

I actually prefer a combination of direct and open for interpretation. For instance, give me a specific out line, boarders. Leave the rest to me.

Too solid of instruction, and I will over analyze how each word could imply something else. Too little, and I will over analyze wtf they want me to do.

 

[Thalassa]

So. Was having a long convo with an INFP friend today. INFP friend works in the film industry, directing, at this point, children in the 8-12 age range. We were discussing a new child who my friend is having great difficulty directing/getting through to. Friend likes to give 'homework' to these kids - open-ended stuff like "come up with 3 different ways to play X scene - how else could Y react" etc. This kid is unable to do this and apparently just freezes up when asked.

I said this somewhat reminded me of me when I was little (and now, to an extent). I appreciate and crave directness. I would also have had trouble with "hmmm, come up with 3 other random options" - in the sense that I would have reacted much better to a specific request "this time, let's play X as angry" etc. I could have *done* the former, but it would have pissed me off a little and made me wonder what the person assigning the task really wanted from me (apparently this kid appears very eager to get 'the right' answer, as well).

Friend then told me he wondered what had happened to the kid to make him this way, and then what had happened to me to make me how I am. My back went ever so slightly up. I asked "do you think there's something wrong/pathological in the behaviour"? The answer was yes. Definite yes.

I'm just surprised I got this from an INFP. Imo my friend is reacting partly out of ego - he is normally extremely good with kids, and with working with kids in this context, and this one has thrown him for a loop.

Thoughts? Is it pathological to have an extreme preference for direct instructions rather than more open-ended thought-assignments? I.e. Do I need to go see a shrink cuz I'm an ENTJ?

EDIT:

Just wanted to add, my own reaction to this is based mostly on efficiency. Open ended things like this frustrate me because I think "you obviously want something from me, want me to learn something or think something etc., so why not just ask me specifically instead of wasting all this time and energy trying to coax it out of me? JUST FRICKEN TELL/ASK ME! Just wanted to explain my reaction. Also wanted to say that yes, I realize there is value in the open ended approach. Definitely. It just sometimes makes me antsy.

It's not pathological. You're just a J.

HOWEVER, I know that when I took English Romanticism with a VERY SJ woman, and she complained about how she just didn't get poetry, or any thing else that didn't have a "right" answer, my inward thought was "what the hell is wrong with her?"

It's just a J vs. P thing.

And your friend's being very INFP by definitively declaring that it's "pathological" because it doesn't gel with her values. I do stuff like that sometimes. ISFPs do it to. I know. I know an ISFP who is worse about it than any INFP I've ever met.

 

[heart]

It's just a J vs. P thing.

And your friend's being very INFP by definitively declaring that it's "pathological" because it doesn't gel with her values. I do stuff like that sometimes. ISFPs do it to. I know. I know an ISFP who is worse about it than any INFP I've ever met.

I wouldn't have called it a value difference but a viewpoint difference. But then I grew up around a lot of J's.

 

[Thalassa]

I wouldn't have called it a value difference but a viewpoint difference. But then I grew up around a lot of J's.

Viewpoint difference may be a better term for it.

I called it a value because I saw it as valuing creativity over rote learning, and even being frightened by rote learning, as if it's some sort of Stepford-esque brainwashing quality. I say that as someone who has considered teaching as a profession.

But "value" may be too strong of a word. I know I could see someone taking that VERY seriously, especially being a P confronted with the structure of the public school system.

 

[Valuable_Money]

It would depend on wether or not it was somthing I wanted to do.

If it was somthing I was really interested in I would love somthing open ended and would hate specific instructions. I remember in the 7th grade we were asked to write a term paper for english. We were prepared for it by reading over a book on how to space the lines ect ect which I imediately disregarded. I then spent my whole time researching my topic (conspiracy theories about the lincoln assassination) which I wrote a 25+(if my memory serves me) essay on. It got a D because I didnt follow "The format" :|

 

[Kalach]

Thoughts? Is it pathological to have an extreme preference for direct instructions rather than more open-ended thought-assignments?

Fuck no.

Enjoying making lists of possibilities runs counter to habits of decision-making. Lists of possibilities are great, but possibilities that aren't going to be acted upon aren't really all that entertaining to an NTJ.

I have wondered about this sometimes: Ni and the way it functions can and even must act as a limit on Ne, meaning an Ni person hanging around an Ne person is going to have some conflicts. Certainly Ne opens up Ni to more possibilities, but Ni will as its supposed to, eventually snap back inside itself.

It appears to be one of the less than perfect aspects of N on N duality.

 

[Kangirl]

If it was somthing I was really interested in I would love somthing open ended and would hate specific instructions.

Good point and I'm the same way. If I'm *interested* in a topic, I sometimes like the "write a 25 page paper on X, anything you want" instruction. But if it's something I just want to get done and handed in, goddamnit, be specific!

Lists of possibilities are great, but possibilities that aren't going to be acted upon aren't really all that entertaining to an NTJ.

I don't know enough to type others reliably but this kid sure sounds INTJ to me. And what my INFP friend is reading as pathology or 'fear' is really just being uncertain of what is wanted/expected of the INTJ kid. I advised the INFP to go easy and work *with* the kid rather than trying to ram a square peg into a round hole but I dunno if my advice will be taken, as INFP is convinced they're the expert. *small rolleye*

 

[musicheck]

Let's let the free market decide whose approach is pathological:
Average Income:
ENTJ - $84,434
ESTJ - $76,238
ESFJ - $74,882
INTJ - $72,043
ENFJ - $71,060
ISTJ - $71,020
ESTP - $69,323
ISTP - $67,349
ENFP - $66,210
INTP - $64,872
INFJ - $64,372
ISFP - $64,166
ISFJ - $63,870
ESFP - $63,281
ENTP - $62,960
INFP - $61,565

If society is the round hole, your INFP friend is clearly overcompensating for being the square peg by deciding the INFP way just has to be right.


(This is 50% joking- but only 50% joking.)

 

[simulatedworld]

Apparently the median income in the US has tripled since...yesterday.

Interesting.

(And you thought the Democrats weren't doing anything to fix the economy!)

 

[musicheck]

This data is from an MBTI survey, so there's selection bias in who takes it. From the looks of this forum, MBTI seems to attract disproportionately many upper middle class whites with college degrees.

 

[tinkerbell]

Surely this is a J type thing, not pathalogical.

J's are not the most imaginative, and typically like boundaries of direction - ENTJ's like most NT's like to get it right, NT's have issues of needing to be independant, so asking an overly open question has no correct answer. To many kids this is great - they just go off and do (more so than adults), but ENTJ's like to excell - their self esteme depends on it/getting it right.

the main thing is different kids respond to different learning styles... thats totally normal.

Lis

 

[Jaguar]

J's are not the most imaginative,

2nd grade teacher said to my Mother:
"Your child has the wildest imagination I've ever seen."

I'm ENTJ.
I spent years using my imagination in advertising.
I don't know what the big deal is people,
but anyone can brainstorm ideas, then choose one to run with.

I've done it my whole life.

 

[tinkerbell]

Hey Jag

No offense meant, my former boss is a J type, he hs creative but doens't beleive himself to be....

Many NT's need to get things right and many J types find open spaces without walls difficult to deal with

I totally agree with the anyone can brainstorm....

Lis

 

[Udog]

Let's let the free market decide whose approach is pathological:
Average Income:
ENTJ - $84,434
ESTJ - $76,238
ESFJ - $74,882
INTJ - $72,043
ENFJ - $71,060
ISTJ - $71,020
ESTP - $69,323
ISTP - $67,349
ENFP - $66,210
INTP - $64,872
INFJ - $64,372
ISFP - $64,166
ISFJ - $63,870
ESFP - $63,281
ENTP - $62,960
INFP - $61,565

It's been awhile since I've seen these numbers, but isn't all that HOUSEHOLD income?

Edit: Yes, those are household incomes. That's a pretty important thing to consider.