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  1. #1
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    Default NT and neutrality towards people

    NT's don't tend to have as many feelings for most people they meet than non-NT's. This makes some people uneasy. If they are insecure, they mistake it for rejection.

    Discuss.

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    NT's don't tend to have as many feelings for most people they meet than non-NT's. This makes some people uneasy. If they are insecure, they mistake it for rejection.

    Discuss.
    I don't agree. I think that NT's simply don't express as many feelings. I think they probably do feel something towards people, but they're just more focused on logic and goals. They might even be less aware of their feelings, but that doesn't mean they don't have them.

    Some NT's might not feel anything, but I really don't think that's typical of them. Some ST's have made me ask that for a moment, but I think even they have feelings buried very deep down. NT's? Oh, they definitely feel something, I can tell... they're sometimes loathe to admit it, however.

    I think most of the people who are offended by NT's seeming "apathy" would be ExFx's, especially ESFx's, who rely on standard emotional cues to feel cared about. NT's don't usually like or use these, so conflicts occur.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    NT's don't tend to have as many feelings for most people they meet than non-NT's. This makes some people uneasy. If they are insecure, they mistake it for rejection.
    Define Feelings.

    I will accept this under the definition of "Not as interested or considerate of people", since that could lead into making people uneasy (see: INTJ writing off) and it could trigger insecure people to think they aren't "worth anything".

    However, I'd say that would only happen at the two extremes ("bad NTs" and insecure people, or disagreeable person + neurotic person, for you ) and can't really be generalised too much.

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    I'm generally accepting of everyone I meet, even if I don't particularly agree with all of their viewpoints.

    (This is more of a P effect for me, I think... because the few people that have really managed to irritate me usually do so by being extremely J. I can't think of a P who has upset me to that degree.)

    But I don't always express this acceptance, due to the introversion. I am low-key friendly, but if I'm nervous, I'll avoid eye contact and not make conversation easily. This can easily be read as rejection by someone else.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    I have lots of feelings - for people I have feelings for. I don't have any feeling towards people I don't have feelings for. The only type I've had problems with this mindset was an ESFJ girl that though I was "rude" because I never spoke with her. I told her I thought everything she said was mindless chatter, and ended the conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I told her I thought everything she said was mindless chatter, and ended the conversation.
    Ow! *laugh*

    If you had invested a little more energy, that could have almost been up there with, "You're ugly. And you're boring. And you're totally ordinary. And you know it."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I don't agree. I think that NT's simply don't express as many feelings. I think they probably do feel something towards people, but they're just more focused on logic and goals. They might even be less aware of their feelings, but that doesn't mean they don't have them.

    Some NT's might not feel anything, but I really don't think that's typical of them. Some ST's have made me ask that for a moment, but I think even they have feelings buried very deep down. NT's? Oh, they definitely feel something, I can tell... they're sometimes loathe to admit it, however.

    I think most of the people who are offended by NT's seeming "apathy" would be ExFx's, especially ESFx's, who rely on standard emotional cues to feel cared about. NT's don't usually like or use these, so conflicts occur.
    How can we know, for sure, the difference between not having feelings and having them but not expressing them? If we can't find feelings, that means that we haven't looked enough? The point becomes impossible to falsify.

    Also, as far as anectodtal evidence goes, you are not an NT, so how would you know how it feels like to be one? How can you be sure that your perception of what the NT is feeling is not merely the projection of your own feelings?

    The only way to demonstrate the point would be to use some physiological measures of emotion and compare people scoring high and low on NT. My prediction would be that people scoring high in NT have lower mean physiological arousal upon seeing someone than people scoring low in NT.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Define Feelings.

    I will accept this under the definition of "Not as interested or considerate of people", since that could lead into making people uneasy (see: INTJ writing off) and it could trigger insecure people to think they aren't "worth anything".

    However, I'd say that would only happen at the two extremes ("bad NTs" and insecure people, or disagreeable person + neurotic person, for you ) and can't really be generalised too much.
    I will define it in the primary sense as an affective reaction, be it positive or negative.

    Considering past research, there are reasons to believe that disagreeable people are less sensitive to affective stimuli than neurotic people are.

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    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Considering past research, there are reasons to believe that disagreeable people are less sensitive to affective stimuli than neurotic people are.
    Doesn't that answer your question though? "T"s (A-) will have a hard time being sensitive to sensitive people (N+)...? I'm not sure how NT really factors in significantly, except they might be better/worse in certain situations (political talks, religious might favor the O+ and C-...?) than just the T would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Doesn't that answer your question though? "T"s (A-) will have a hard time being sensitive to sensitive people (N+)...? I'm not sure how NT really factors in significantly, except they might be better/worse in certain situations (political talks, religious might favor the O+ and C-...?) than just the T would.
    You mention a question, but I did not ask any question. Non-traditional beliefs are more common in high O's. These have a tendency to upset people low in O because it puts them in a state of cognitive dissonance concerning their own belief systems. Also, high O's tend to be more pensive, imaginative and preoccupied with ideas than low O's, which could in theory make them seem somewhat more detached from reality than low O's. Low A combined with high O would produce a combination particularly prone to upsetting existing beliefs by having a person express non-traditional thinking with no qualms. I think they would have less trouble ignoring social norms and appropriate responses to people (such as showing emotion), and hence their attitude might be read by mistake as rejection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Also, as far as anectodtal evidence goes, you are not an NT, so how would you know how it feels like to be one? How can you be sure that your perception of what the NT is feeling is not merely the projection of your own feelings?
    So? How can I know that people who do express emotions actually feel them? I can't, they could just be faking it. Even I have behaved as though I liked people I disliked because I didn't want to face the social consequences of being perceived by others to dislike this person. Expression doesn't prove anything. It's very possible that any emotion I perceive could be fake, or a reflection of my own. I just like to believe it isn't so.

    My point is, it seems to me they usually do express them in some way, it just isn't as direct as the way Feeling types do. For instance, they might try to help you understand something, or try harder to understand something you're explaining to them. The first few times, it might just be curiosity. But the more times they help you, the more interested they seem interested, the more likely it is that it might be due to an emotion towards you. You'll never know for certain, but it's easy to infer.

    Even if they don't feel anything, they're certainly interesting to talk to, and offer a lot of potentially helpful advice and perspectives on things. Thinking about how they have no emotions would ruin that for me, and I see no reason to suffer from that awareness unnecessarily, especially if they can approximate the sort of responses I need to perceive well enough to satisfy my perceptions.

    Finally, what are emotions anyway? It's possible that they are nothing more than a particular type of brain activity or expressive capacity that T types lack. Should I dislike someone because they lack a particular awareness or brain activity? It may mean that I should be less trusting of them not to use anything that could benefit them against me unless I have something equally damaging to use against them, but then that wouldn't be particularly intelligent in any case. It would always be a risk.

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