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  1. #31
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I think there's something in that. It definately ties in with my feelings (or lack thereof) when my dad died. Everyone kept telling me that my grief was 'delayed' and that sooner or later I'd start feeling things, but I still don't and I really can't imagine I ever will. It just wasn't really a big deal to me, in a way... I mean of course, in theory it's supposed to be a big deal when your father dies, but it's not like I wasn't expecting him to die sometime anyway, and especially since he was old and not too healthy, I knew it was coming by and by.

    People tell me I'm in denial, but I find that quite insulting - it's quite simple to me: I've accepted it, plain and simple. Within 24 hours of getting the news, I'd completely accepted that he was gone, wasn't coming back, and all the sorrow in the world wouldn't bring him back or help anything, and besides, I didn't feel that much sorrow anyway since I hadn't seen him in years, precisely because I found life better without him around. I wasn't going to suddenly start pretending to be distraught over his death just because people might call me callous otherwise.
    To offer an NF contrast:

    Well, even I don't feel much if a distant relative or anyone I don't really know or care about very deeply dies. That's not abnormal. The difference is, I might act out a negative emotion, and try to look grudgingly accepting of the fact so that people wouldn't freak out as they did in your case, because I wouldn't want them to think less of me. I would feel a deep sense of loss if a person close to me died, and would come to always cherish their memory and past friendship, perhaps thinking of them periodically, wondering what they might say in a particular situation, remembering their previous ideas, opinions, and words. But I would probably keep on focusing on what I needed to do, and the people who were still here. After all, I know they wouldn't have wanted me to spend the rest of my life in sorrow over them, and that what matters and requires my attention at this point are the people I can still deal with, who are still part of my life. I might very well focus my attentions on comforting others.

  2. #32
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Even the people I'd say I love the most, like my kids, my best friends, my brother etc, I still know that if they were to disappear and I never saw them again, so long as I knew they were safe and happy, I wouldn't be distraught and would be unlikely to miss them much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Sigh. You have much cajones in saying this.....
    I have been this way, too to a great extent, and it scared me.

    I got the idea that I was getting better at bonding, when my cat (who we had only had for about 4 years) got sick and I had to take her to the vet.
    For goodness' sake, I bawled my head off most of the way there!
    I couldn't believe myself - all that over a cat!
    But I was happy too, because bonding is hard for me.

    I think I am more bonded to my family than I "think" I am.
    My husband passed out at work a few years ago and the emergency room personnel called me to let me know.
    He asked me if I wanted to speak to my husband, and I suddenly realized, Yes, that would give me great comfort. I NEED to speak to my husband, and hear his voice for myself, even though you told me he's okay.

    Maybe our thinking doesn't allow us to feel the depth of our attachment?

  3. #33
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    *grrroooan* God yes, I know what you mean. One of the guys who works for me is like that, so I have to be reserved with compliments - if he shows me something he did and I think it's brilliant and say it's brilliant, he somehow manages, in his head, to turn "I like that painting, it's brilliant" into "I love you, you're my favourite person", which baffles me. I was talking about the PAINTING, not you...
    What type does this?
    Because I think I want to avoid making that mistake also.

  4. #34
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    ...People tell me I'm in denial, but I find that quite insulting - it's quite simple to me: I've accepted it, plain and simple. ....
    Since Acceptance is the goal of grieving, I would say you are right.

  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I think I am more bonded to my family than I "think" I am. My husband passed out at work a few years ago and the emergency room personnel called me to let me know. He asked me if I wanted to speak to my husband, and I suddenly realized, Yes, that would give me great comfort. I NEED to speak to my husband, and hear his voice for myself, even though you told me he's okay. Maybe our thinking doesn't allow us to feel the depth of our attachment?
    I do think that's possible.

    I know I usually feel the indifference until something unexpected happens (as with your husband) and I need reassurance, or my family goes out and no one left a note, and suddenly I feel a bit empty and anxious and worry about them and just want to know what happened and if they're okay and so forth and feel much better when I hear them walk in the front door.

    And I seem to be having more and more of those moments where intellectually I feel fine in a potentially stressful situation... but suddenly these emotions seem to just well up out of nowhere and threaten to swallow me whole, and find that I feel much better if I deal with them rather than ignoring them like before. (But it only happens when I am actually immersed in the situation, rather than just imagining it.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #36
    Junior Member fiona's Avatar
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    Lots of stuff that resonates here. I have trouble bonding, and my brother (prob also INTJ like me) and I tacitly admit that if the other died we would go on without much grieving.

    Going back to the original question, what hasn't come up is the way I feel when I meet someone - that I don't have the right to shove my feelings in their face. OK, so my instinct says not to trust them or that I don't like them...fine, but that doesn't give me the right to make that plain. If their behaviour subsequently proves me right, I might feel more comfortable with making my feelings clear, but until I have objective proof of what someone is like what right have I to alter my behaviour towards them?

    I think this is where some of the more 'feeling' types bewilder me - they seem to believe they have a perfect right to go off at someone simply because they don't like the look of them, and then, having made a complete balls-up of the situation they tell a thinking type that they're cold and withdrawn.

    We're neither - we're just waiting for proof!

  7. #37
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I do think that's possible.

    I know I usually feel the indifference until something unexpected happens (as with your husband) and I need reassurance, or my family goes out and no one left a note, and suddenly I feel a bit empty and anxious and worry about them and just want to know what happened and if they're okay and so forth and feel much better when I hear them walk in the front door.

    And I seem to be having more and more of those moments where intellectually I feel fine in a potentially stressful situation... but suddenly these emotions seem to just well up out of nowhere and threaten to swallow me whole, and find that I feel much better if I deal with them rather than ignoring them like before. (But it only happens when I am actually immersed in the situation, rather than just imagining it.)
    Thanks for validating my feelings.
    I appreciate you.

  8. #38
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiona View Post
    Lots of stuff that resonates here. I have trouble bonding, and my brother (prob also INTJ like me) and I tacitly admit that if the other died we would go on without much grieving.

    Going back to the original question, what hasn't come up is the way I feel when I meet someone - that I don't have the right to shove my feelings in their face. OK, so my instinct says not to trust them or that I don't like them...fine, but that doesn't give me the right to make that plain. If their behaviour subsequently proves me right, I might feel more comfortable with making my feelings clear, but until I have objective proof of what someone is like what right have I to alter my behaviour towards them?

    I think this is where some of the more 'feeling' types bewilder me - they seem to believe they have a perfect right to go off at someone simply because they don't like the look of them, and then, having made a complete balls-up of the situation they tell a thinking type that they're cold and withdrawn.

    We're neither - we're just waiting for proof!
    I do that too every now and then where I just don't "like" somebody.
    But I certainly would still be civil to them if that's what was required of me.
    I wouldn't dare be mean and nasty to them for such a petty reason as not "liking" them.
    That can be caused by something as basic as personality differences.
    I'm with you.

  9. #39
    Member warick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Even the people I'd say I love the most, like my kids, my best friends, my brother etc, I still know that if they were to disappear and I never saw them again, so long as I knew they were safe and happy, I wouldn't be distraught and would be unlikely to miss them much.
    I agree with this completely. Occasionally when I come home and the house is empty, I don't know what to do, I'm not used to being home alone. I used to mistake that feeling for missing them, but then I later realized that it was because my routine was disrupted and I'm not used to having free time so I have to reacquaint myself with doing things alone.
    I sometimes daydream, thinking "so if my whole family died, how long could I live off the life insurance if I quit my job". I calculated a way to keep myself unemployed for 20 years before I realized the implications of my musings. Somehow, this didn't really bother me.

  10. #40
    Member MX5's Avatar
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    I've lurked in this forum for several days now and pondered where I would jump in and contribute. This thread seems like as good a place as any as so much that has been said here strikes a chord with me.

    My personal experience has been that I place people into two categories; those I care for and those I don't. For those that fall into the former category I tend to have deep and strong feelings for. I am not a demonstrative type, but I do let those people know that I will do (just about) anything for them. People that fall into the latter category I tend to treat as "appliances". That is, they are useful and necessary but I attach no emotional significance to them. That DOES NOT mean that there is no moral imperative to treat them with dignity and respect, but I don't necessarily like, or dislike them.

    My particular issue is that

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