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  1. #11
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by User99 View Post
    I also don't know know much about Socionics and their type descriptions, but this is not about MBTI vs. Socionics. It's about that particular piece of text (portions of which may or may not be in agreement with other Socionics LII type descriptions).

    Add the ''... may appear to be aloof, cold...'' part to complete the description if you have to. But if you haven't already read it, put aside any issues with Socionics (I have some problems with Socionics too), read the text, and tell me what you think.
    :/ I did. You wrote before that you weren't interested in a comparison, so if you didn't notice, I posted again, and told you what I think.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  2. #12
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    Socionics is better than MBTI in my opinion. The description sounds like an INTP, but I'm sure INTxs probably relate to both ILI and LII.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    I think that description sounds in a very general way similar to the description of a mature INTJ (I think my father is one of those), but I don't think it sounds that much more like him than the ILI description. Many of the elements described relate to both INTx types, and in fact there are probably many INTJs who relate to the LII description better than others, regardless of maturity.

    But it is possible that I'm just missing something because the translation is so poor in parts as to completely lose me.

    What is your definition of the qualities that a mature INTJ possesses?
    Maybe I should have used 'wiser' or 'more experienced' instead of 'mature'.

    Meaning: less 'experienced' INTJs seem to embrace and promote the whole '' I appear aloof to others, I can't stand stand people with IQs below 150, I'm a social misfit, I'm blunt - so get over it (sometimes throwing in references to people like Hitler)'' aspect of the INTJ personality without simultaneously displaying some of the positive traits of the personality.

    (I'll have to revisit the other socionics descriptions... But) I thought that this description not only highlights both negatives and positive aspects of the personality, but describes both sides in enough detail to allow anyone who has never met an INTJ IRL to develop a well rounded picture of what a well-developed person of this type might look (be) like (instead of equating the letters INTJ to 'evil antisocial forumite' or 'socially awkward guy from A Beautiful Mind'). In this way I thought this description was best.

    (But, you're an INTJ, and you seem to disagree, so I may be wrong.)

  4. #14
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by User99 View Post
    Maybe I should have used 'wiser' or 'more experienced' instead of 'mature'.

    Meaning: less 'experienced' INTJs seem to embrace and promote the whole '' I appear aloof to others, I can't stand stand people with IQs below 150, I'm a social misfit, I'm blunt - so get over it (sometimes throwing in references to people like Hitler)'' aspect of the INTJ personality without simultaneously displaying some of the positive traits of the personality.

    (I'll have to revisit the other socionics descriptions... But) I thought that this description not only highlights both negatives and positive aspects of the personality, but describes both sides in enough detail to allow anyone who has never met an INTJ IRL to develop a well rounded picture of what a well-developed person of this type might look (be) like (instead of equating the letters INTJ to 'evil antisocial forumite' or 'socially awkward guy from A Beautiful Mind'). In this way I thought this description was best.

    (But, you're an INTJ, and you seem to disagree, so I may be wrong.)
    Oh, no, I just thought you were coming from a different point of comparison. I fully agree that there is much more to the measure of an INTJ than the highly reduced "aloof/awkward/emotionless" description.

    I think if you read other descriptions, you'll find that many of them do elaborate beyond that. Fi in particular is overlooked in bad descriptions, but there are many good descriptions which stress the importance of the internal value system of the INTJ. I simply believe that the socionics one is not one of the better descriptions. It is good in that it does identify that part of the INTJ, but there are others that do it more lucidly and accurately.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    :/ I did. You wrote before that you weren't interested in a comparison, so if you didn't notice, I posted again, and told you what I think.

    Sorry, I wrote that before I saw your next post. No offence...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    1. Truthfully, I thought that description was horrible for any type.
    It has nothing to do with "healthy" or unhealthy INTJ.
    It has nothing to do with you "going wrong," either.
    2. There are plenty of INTJ profiles out there.
    Why are you trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?

    3. Edit: I agree with Poppy. The whole translation makes it a mess to read.
    1. Forumite opinions. That's what I was looking for. Thank you. (Seriously)

    2. The ones I've seen are probably great at helping INTJs understand themselves better and feel less ''alone'', but to non-INTJs, they may paint an overly negative picture of the personality. I am trying to find one that paints a neutral picture to someone who has never met an INTJ IRL. (I should have explained what I meant by Healthy and Mature earlier. My mistake.)

    3. Comments on the quality of the translation. Not why I started the thread (and hence the warning in the OP). So, no 'thanks' for this one.
    Last edited by cinema; 08-10-2009 at 09:11 PM. Reason: Typo

  7. #17
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by User99 View Post
    3. Comments on the quality of the translation. Not why I started the thread (and hence the warning in the OP). So, no 'thanks' for this one.
    I understand you wanted to talk about the content of the description, but you can't be surprised or put off when people comment on one of the factors that is involved in understanding the article. It also puts us all on the same page so that we understand that yes, most of us are missing something from the article because we are not socionics or Russian language experts.

    Just sayin'.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by User99 View Post

    Ignore the socionics context, ignore socionics function sub-headings, read the text (when you have time), think of a mature, healthy MBTI INTJ... and if you still don't agree with me, tell where I'm going wrong.
    You are going wrong because it describes Ti-Ne and MBTI INTJs are Ni-Te. Why would you expect a description of functions INTJs don't have as their top two would describe them? You should be asking if it's a good description of MBTI INTPs.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    I think if you read other descriptions, you'll find that many of them do elaborate beyond that. Fi in particular is overlooked in bad descriptions, but there are many good descriptions which stress the importance of the internal value system of the INTJ. I simply believe that the socionics one is not one of the better descriptions. It is good in that it does identify that part of the INTJ, but there are others that do it more lucidly and accurately.
    Just read the Typelogic profile and I agree with you, it's a very good description.

    I just think that if that was the first INTJ profile I read as an MBTI newbie, I could have easily concluded that:

    1. If you want someone who'll get the job done, without worrying about everyone else's fuzzy feelings, get an INTJ.

    2. If you want to learn how not to attract the opposite sex, observe an INTJ.

    3. Outside of the workplace, INTJs are sad souls and we should all feel sorry for them.

    Now, I know that you posted that link because it's useful to you as an INTJ, but now I would like to know which profile is best for those who've never met one of you (with links if possible). Thanks again.

    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    I understand you wanted to talk about the content of the description, but you can't be surprised or put off when people comment on one of the factors that is involved in understanding the article. It also puts us all on the same page so that we understand that yes, most of us are missing something from the article because we are not socionics or Russian language experts.

    Just sayin'.
    His tone was that of a person who... Anyway, all text, no visual or aural cues, so... My bad.

  10. #20
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by User99 View Post
    Now, I know that you posted that link because it's useful to you as an INTJ, but now I would like to know which profile is best for those who've never met one of you (with links if possible). Thanks again.
    Okay, well I can't help ya there hah. But BlackCat mentioned the Bestfit type description, which I also think is a pretty fair one.

    I don't know how many people have never met an INTJ though, especially on this board. Also if they aren't familiar with an INTJ in real life, how a theoretical description would be at all helpful to them is beyond me.
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