[NT] T love

[the state i am in]

i don't get it.

i'm specifically thinking of the triangular theory of love and the category of PASSION. magnetic attraction. the explosive pulling force.

for F predominants it's holism, it's self-to-self, it's connecting and communicating your self-identifications, who you are, your holistic web of values/evaluations. beliefs built on faith, on the overwhelming harmony of values, etc. it's a shot in the arm to the system, an intoxicating drug, it pervades into the whole system and just makes you resonate hard with giddiness. it makes you want to get closer, communicate everything, desire the whole of the other, you stop seeing them as individual parts and assemblages of pieced togetherness and their whole system becomes part of your own, a new need.

for T predominants i can't tell what it is. i think it's partly a competitiveness. a challenge. a desire to play a game, an insatiable appetite. it seems like the best game you've ever played, the greatest performance, the sense of accomplishment together, etc.

F and T types sometimes find great balance in relationships by providing extra fortification for each other's weaknesses. but i want to know what activates their desire. how they want, how they perceive wanting, why they go crazy over another.

i'm just tossing out ideas. show me more.

 

[simulatedworld]

i don't get it.

i'm specifically thinking of the triangular theory of love and the category of PASSION. magnetic attraction. the explosive pulling force.

for F predominants it's holism, it's self-to-self, it's connecting and communicating your self-identifications, who you are, your holistic web of values/evaluations. beliefs built on faith, on the overwhelming harmony of values, etc. it's a shot in the arm to the system, an intoxicating drug, it pervades into the whole system and just makes you resonate hard with giddiness. it makes you want to get closer, communicate everything, desire the whole of the other, you stop seeing them as individual parts and assemblages of pieced togetherness and their whole system becomes part of your own, a new need.

for T predominants i can't tell what it is. i think it's partly a competitiveness. a challenge. a desire to play a game, an insatiable appetite. it seems like the best game you've ever played, the greatest performance, the sense of accomplishment together, etc.

F and T types sometimes find great balance in relationships by providing extra fortification for each other's weaknesses. but i want to know what activates their desire. how they want, how they perceive wanting, why they go crazy over another.

i'm just tossing out ideas. show me more.

You're confusing F with N. Most of what you describe as "F predominant" is actually N predominant. NTs will identify with the vast majority of it.

I think it's really just the combination of Sensing and Thinking that you don't understand, and I'm not really qualified to describe firsthand what love means to STs.

 

[the state i am in]

my categories as written are very poor. regardless,

T is still linear, objective, and impersonal.
F is still holistic, subjective, and personal.

i can sense a great difference in the perception of love for F and T types (i AM specifically talking iNtuitives).

what is this perspective of passion for T types, and what disconnect do you see in the way that nf and nt types imagine and articulate their self-understandings and experiences of love? when you want someone in particular so much that you do not see anyone else?

 

[the state i am in]

perhaps muddying the waters, my entp friend and i often talk about our experiences with love. we're still Fe and not Fi. we anticipate, respond, and communicate well. but we don't store the individual resonances as strongly, we always have a desire to CONNECT ANEW and create it between us and others, we can't savor it and feel it internally like Fi types.

but what actually grounds us is Ti. it is what makes us know this is worth it more than other situations. and this is how i feel in relationships, that it's my Ti that makes my best decisions.

but i am confused right now bc at times my Fe just goes crazy in a way that is less apparent in my entp friends. it just needs to connect otherwise i feel like i stop waking up. i start to sleepwalk. i think i need Fi to feed me more and more, and i don't know how T types combat this and how their perspective is different. what elicits intense passionate focus on another, total desire, etc. bc for me, my functions seem to be producing lots of split decisions, never a unanimous victory or a K.O.

i am perhaps trying to better understand perspectives on passion (magnetic pull to one person!) that i am not seeing. where blockages could be for individual types and why they don't have the letting go this is what i want/need experience as easily as others.

i need to combat my jaded, really? my my what lofty expectations you have kind of voice in my head. passion means something different to ESP than it does to Se inferior INJ. but it still means something crucial, and i need to understand this better.

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

what elicits intense passionate focus on another, total desire

I can achieve passionate focus on anyone or anything in short bursts. Often, it's just about a need being fulfilled ... their need or mine or both.


But a sustained passion? What makes me passionate is a mystery to me; I can't think my way into it rationally. It's either there or it's not and I try not to analyze it. But I do think my T is what keeps me passionate. I desire human puzzles.

 

[poppy]

we don't store the individual resonances as strongly, we always have a desire to CONNECT ANEW and create it between us and others, we can't savor it and feel it internally like Fi types.

i need to combat my jaded, really? my my what lofty expectations you have kind of voice in my head. passion means something different to ESP than it does to Se inferior INJ. but it still means something crucial, and i need to understand this better.

My understanding of individual functions is limited, and I don't really understand what you mean by savoring connections internally like Fi types (or do you mean Fi-doms?) compared to creating new connections. I'm just kind of lost on that, so I wonder if there is a different way to explain it, or an example you could give.

I think I understand what you mean in the second part, but are you referring to physical passion (which would be Se) or emotional passion (which I don't think would be Se even for people with high use of it)?

I think for me passion is rooted in Te/Fi. When I'm really crazy about someone I tend to have kind of a nostalgic attachment to them. Also it usually only happens when I can't understand them or predict their actions. It's unusual for me to know a person for a long time and not have a pretty good map of their mind, so when I do meet someone that complex...I don't know, they remain fascinating, and I remain infatuated

 

[Kalach]

perhaps muddying the waters, my entp friend and i often talk about our experiences with love. we're still Fe and not Fi. we anticipate, respond, and communicate well. but we don't store the individual resonances as strongly, we always have a desire to CONNECT ANEW and create it between us and others, we can't savor it and feel it internally like Fi types.

I recognise that CONNECT ANEW thing. I get the same vibe being around ENFPs I know. Actually, it feels more lifelike than the business of savoring internally. If one--this one, that is, me, thus far in this life--sits too long with Fi, it sours.

 

[the state i am in]

eventually Te just overpowers it and claims functionally speaking it is mostly wasteful?

why is it difficult for intj to manage its Fi world and keep it healthy while still attending to Ni and Te spaces for thinking? savoring works, in part, bc it is a way of introducing positive thinking and reinterpreted past experiences that were negative in a slightly sunnier outlook. Te just doesn't have time to attend to those childlike fantasies and whims, when there is real work to be done and logical thinking gets it done on a more consistent basis?

 

[A Schnitzel]

But a sustained passion? What makes me passionate is a mystery to me; I can't think my way into it rationally. It's either there or it's not and I try not to analyze it. But I do think my T is what keeps me passionate. I desire human puzzles.

You're right. I don't think anyone can explain why they're passionate about something or someone. Sure you can describe what you love, but it's more than just that. Why do I like one sport more than another? There's no real reason, I just do. Using descriptors always seems to come short of whatever subjective experience I enjoy, with or without a person.

 

[Kalach]

eventually Te just overpowers it and claims functionally speaking it is mostly wasteful?

why is it difficult for intj to manage its Fi world and keep it healthy while still attending to Ni and Te spaces for thinking? savoring works, in part, bc it is a way of introducing positive thinking and reinterpreted past experiences that were negative in a slightly sunnier outlook. Te just doesn't have time to attend to those childlike fantasies and whims, when there is real work to be done and logical thinking gets it done on a more consistent basis?

I suspect savoring is the goal. Maybe an end state. My own experience of Fi is mostly that it's... just... there. If I want to spend time with it, other stuff has to be arranged first, meaning Fi is a stamp of approval. (Or oftentimes disapproval.) Savoring seems like the work of maturity.

Seems like passion is royally destabilising without--for want of a less robotic term--a work focus.

 

[violet_crown]

I recognise that CONNECT ANEW thing. I get the same vibe being around ENFPs I know. Actually, it feels more lifelike than the business of savoring internally. If one--this one, that is, me, thus far in this life--sits too long with Fi, it sours.

God I love how you write.

 

[Kalach]

*seeks for witty reply*

*minutes later gives up--fail*

*wonders if Soundgarden has INTJS*

*jesus christ pose*

*minutes pass*

*reboot: Ty Cobb*


*shakes head at self, posts anyway*




(That's what savoring Fi looks like, he wonders?)

 

[simulatedworld]

my categories as written are very poor. regardless,

T is still linear, objective, and impersonal.
F is still holistic, subjective, and personal.

i can sense a great difference in the perception of love for F and T types (i AM specifically talking iNtuitives).

what is this perspective of passion for T types, and what disconnect do you see in the way that nf and nt types imagine and articulate their self-understandings and experiences of love? when you want someone in particular so much that you do not see anyone else?

It's not a difference in perception of love because NTs and NFs have the same perceptive process N; it's merely a difference in the decision as to how to display that perception of feeling, whether by T or by F means of expression.

T is linear in a vacuum, but NTs don't live anywhere as close to that vacuum as do STs, especially the N-dominant ones (ENTP/INTJ.) Because Thinking is a secondary priority for us, we don't tend to have very "linear" thought processes at all--Thinking is only allowed to direct and advise from a clearly subordinate position. iNtuition gets the final say. (If you want the true opposite perspective, try asking ISTPs or ESTJs--they're both T dominant and Sensors, can probably explain what you're looking for much more clearly...also talking to INTP/ENTJ couldn't hurt either, since they're T dominants as well.)

Again, you think you can intuit the real feelings of Thinkers but you can't. NTs, at least, feel love very similarly to the way you feel love; we just aren't very good at expressing it and sometimes that makes us uncomfortable so we try to downplay its significance by talking about how it's "all just chemical reactions" or whatnot...which it technically is, but that doesn't mean we don't feel its potent emotional effects. (Many of us just refuse to admit it or show it outwardly because we don't know how.)

 

[Unique]

We feel love very similarly to the way you feel love; we just aren't very good at expressing it and sometimes it makes us uncomfortable so we try to downplay its significance by talking about how it's "all just chemical reactions" or whatnot...which is technically is, but that doesn't mean we don't feel its potent emotional effects. (Many of us just refuse to admit it or show it outwardly because we don't know how.)

Don't really need an ST to explain love to you, the above is all you need to go off

Love is not different for Ts but I can see why you might think so

 

[sculpting]

I would suggest that you very clearly describe what being "in love" feels like for you. Not short term emo affection but the real deal.

1. Describe the way you connect,
2. the physiological response you feel,
3. the time duration, and the
4.intesntiy of the emotion you feel.

I understand this for Fi, but have no understanding of Fe. State, oddly, your description doesnt really match mine making me think they may differ for Fe and Fi.

Read this along time ago so needs a fact check but: Attachment in animals is moderated oxytocin (?) receptors in various portions of the brain. Animals with highly monogomous attachments-prarie voles-will die if seperated from thier mates and have oxytocin receptors in hte part of the brain that controls pleasure. Animals with no attachment/mating and depart behavior-mountain voles-have few to no receptors in that part of the brain for oxytocin.

 

[Kalach]

F love is so the science project.

 

[jenocyde]

I can achieve passionate focus on anyone or anything in short bursts. Often, it's just about a need being fulfilled ... their need or mine or both.

+1

I would suggest that you very clearly describe what being "in love" feels like for you. Not short term emo affection but the real deal.

1. Describe the way you connect,
2. the physiological response you feel,
3. the time duration, and the
4.intesntiy of the emotion you feel.

I understand this for Fi, but have no understanding of Fe. State, oddly, your description doesnt really match mine making me think they may differ for Fe and Fi.

The thing is that I know logically when I am in love, but I only feel it occasionally. It's not an omnipresent thing, and it's hard for me to imagine that it is that way for others. But when I feel it, it's like I just drank a glass of liquid sunshine.

But once I am aware that I am experiencing an emotion, I immediately start to think about it and that somehow, accidentally, stops me from focusing on feeling it at that moment.

I sometimes want to revel in a feeling and I get really irritated when people start talking and make me aware of it (e.g. "isn't this fun?"). I snap back to reality almost instantly. Why state the obvious?

 

[SubjectA]

my categories as written are very poor. regardless,

T is still linear, objective, and impersonal.
F is still holistic, subjective, and personal.

i can sense a great difference in the perception of love for F and T types (i AM specifically talking iNtuitives).

what is this perspective of passion for T types, and what disconnect do you see in the way that nf and nt types imagine and articulate their self-understandings and experiences of love? when you want someone in particular so much that you do not see anyone else?

Love or passion isn't objective, impersonal, or very linear for us. Love CAN'T be objective or impersonal, or even linear. It will always be subjective and personal, otherwise it isn't love. We're perfectly capable of feeling. T's just have a different way of showing love than F's do. It's understandable that you'd think this way, because we just show our love in ways that you might not be able to recognize. T isn't our perceptive function, the N is.

 

[SubjectA]

+1

But when I feel it, it's like I just drank a glass of liquid sunshine.

You mean being in love is like drinking a glass of Sunny D?

 

[sculpting]

God I love how you write.

F love is so the science project.

me too.