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  1. #71
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Heh, fair enough. I'm comparing this to my European/Scandinavian families... which have tons of money. Them, I like. My American side of the family with lots of money... Yah. Not so much. (...) In that world, the less people show off, the better.
    Have you considered that maybe you're so used to the hot air approach that you're not picking up on their understated ways of showing off? The number one piece of advice we get for interviewing with American companies is to be explicit about our accomplishments because recruiters do not pick up on our indirect way of communicating.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Just what are you saying?
    Just that if you had read what hotmale was replying to, I would never have had to go size 4 on Jen in the first place. :steam:

  2. #72
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Have you considered that maybe you're so used to the hot air approach that you're not picking up on their understated ways of showing off? The number one piece of advice we get for interviewing with American companies is to be explicit about our accomplishments because recruiters do not pick up on our indirect way of communicating.
    That's possible, but let me see...

    American version: Drives two cars for the explicit reason of showing off his 1/4 million limited edition porsche.

    Scandinavian version: Makes every effort to reduce the burden on my family to show them around town (which the "American" dad refused and paid through the nose for).

    Guess who just assumed that imposing on our schedules was an issue? This was generally true throughout the culture, not just the family sample here.

    I agree that there is a significant difference and that neither side is "ideal". I just strongly perfer noblesse oblige to frat boys, which is pretty much how it comes across. That is not to say that the underlying nature in Europe is different, just more comfortable for me.

    I get my back up in a similar way with Asian's and education, in particular Indian castes and Korean social stratification.

    Just that if you had read what hotmale was replying to, I would never have had to go size 4 on Jen in the first place.
    Eh, I read it again after and still didn't understand how you viewed (post 51) his post to come up with what you said. This was a gap more than my skim :P

    (But then I'm not worried about things like that, so the gap is probably mine)

  3. #73
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I agree that there is a significant difference and that neither side is "ideal". I just strongly perfer noblesse oblige to frat boys, which is pretty much how it comes across. That is not to say that the underlying nature in Europe is different, just more comfortable for me.
    Yeah, I totally get the false modesty < honesty < hot air argument. Personally I can play by whatever rules I have to, and so I prefer the open competition to the sneaky one.

    Eh, I read it again after and still didn't understand how you viewed (post 51) his post to come up with what you said.
    I at being unemployed --> hotmale uptalks my situation --> I am reminded of an aspect of American mentality that I prefer to the one of my home country.

    If it's still unclear, don't tell me - or at least don't simultaneously tell me that you don't worry about things like that.

  4. #74
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I would agree that Americans do tend to, "show off," much more than Europeans seem to. We are pretty much more overt in most things that we do and have always been historically. Overall, I would say that our society is much more, "for the greater good of the individual," than, "for the greater good." Most of us probably have a feeling that if we don't obviously compete then we will fall behind...just like the Asian education thing that you mentioned. Historically, we have had to literally fight for whatever we wanted.

    It really is very dependent on the individual too, though. I know an INTJ male who is extremely well off and lives well below his means (I mean, he lives in a million dollar house and drives an eighty thousand dollar car, but they were paid for in cash with much more put towards retirement/children's education/etc.). Or take Warren Buffet, for instance, still living in his house that he bought for $30,000 if memory serves me right.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  5. #75
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I thought hotmale was uptalking my unemployed status...?

    In my country, people downtalk everything and you have to drag their achievements out of them. Not only is the negative spin a downer, it's also based on false modesty :rolli:, so I much prefer the positive (/American) approach. Even if it does lead to converse problems of having to deflate euphemisms like 'between careers' into 'unemployed' at least you actually get to be honestly proud of and to celebrate your achievements.
    Just for the record, I knew that's what you meant.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Because I dislike the competitive nature (as I said, it feels like comparing dick size among mates... it can get over the top). Worse, if you are on top, the others actually start to resent you in small ways. I prefer just keeping things low-key and the negative spin does that.
    Actually, what sometimes happens here, is that negative spin, critique becomes its own positive standard: - Whomever can critique something in the most ironic/sophisticated way gets to simutaniously build up his/her persona.
    best collection of philosopher typings online

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  7. #77
    Member Headstrong's Avatar
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    Headstrong here...call me Julie.

    *Career choices
    Pursuing a PhD. in psychology.

    *Friendships with the two genders (just plain gender ratios of who makes up your friend circles/how do you connect with other females/etc.)
    I generally have more guy friends. I have always gotten along better with them. Before high school ended, we had a posse that was formed freshman year of 8 people. It has diminished and grown throughout the years, but we graduated and now I really don't want to have anything to do with them. They're into drinking and smoking and I'm not. Currently, I have about three close friends. One is a guy who is an ENTJ. He is everything to me. I have a gal friend who is an ENFJ. We balance each other out. My other guy friend I've known for 14 years. He's an ENTP. We've had our fair share of rough patches, but we've stuck together despite them. I don't really connect with other females well. I'm too much of a tomboy and think like a guy. I'm rarely emotional.

    *Paranoias
    Being judged, being misunderstood, not finding someone who understands me.

    *Feelings re: tattoos/piercings
    Tattoos are fine. I have my ears pierced, so I am for it as well.

    *religion
    Christianity is so tainted. I believe and God and that Jesus is my savior. That's my 'religion.'

    *academic interest areas
    Psychology, science, english, music.

    *types of guys you are romantically attracted to (or, i suppose, females, too)
    extraverts mainly. I was in my happiest relationship with an ENTJ. He's just like me, with an E instead of an I.

    *sports
    Gymnastics, softball, track.

    *music (what you listen to/what instruments you play)
    Acoustic, metal, rock, hard rock, techno, screamo...you name it. Anything really. As long as it's not country or rap. I played the clarinet through middle school and high school. I dabbled with the piano and flute as well.

    *social skills (because we can be all over the map, from the limited previous
    evidence volunteered by female INTJs on these boards)

    I prefer to stay away from social gatherings with people I don't know or those I don't like. I can fake being interested/extraverted for short amounts of time though just to be polite.


    *parental relationships
    We've had our rough patches, but I suppose it's just like a regular old family.

    *interest in kids
    I can't even remember...all I know is that I felt out of place and I was consistantly reading other people for their emotions and feelings.

    *how you act when you're in charge or leading something
    I am confident, think I'm right, but am willlnig to listen to other opinions. If theirs is better, though, I will admit it.

    *extra-curriculars
    I tried track in high school. I hated it. The only thing I ever stuck with was marching and concert band. Music was my passion.

    *favorite authors/books/etc.
    Dan Brown, C.S. Lewis

    *favorite movies/directors/actors/tv shows etc.
    16 Candles, The Breakfast Club, Monthy Python, etc.

    *Pet Peeves!!
    People who chew with their mouths open, people who say "ya know, ya know what I mean?" 3 times a sentence, nagging, clingy people.

    *how good are you with money
    I am very conservative. I rarely splurge on myself.

    *do you feel uncomfortable/out of character in a girly dress and a situation
    where you have to do the typical Girly Stuff?

    Yes, I prefer not to wear dresses or skirts. I feel like everyone is looking at me. I don't mind dressing up for dances, though, because that is expected.

    *how do you dress
    I can dress nice some days in khaki pants, a nice dress shirt, and some nice shoes. Other days It's jeans and a tee. Some it's athletic pants and a sweatshirt. Depends on the day.

    *vices
    Procrastination, blantent honestly.

    *known areas of inter-relational problems
    Guys, peers of my own age? Not quite sure what you mean.

    *known areas of information acquiring problems (i.e. study
    methods/tips/areas of weakness/how you use your strengths to gather information)

    I'm a snoop when it comes to finding stuff out about people I recently meet. I'll find their myspace and facebook and stalk for a bit. :-X Not obsessively though.


    *are you a visual/auditory/interactive/argumentative etc. learner?
    Lectures work for me. It's auditory as well as visual. I hate being forced to interact. Arguments are good I suppose.

    *early riser vs. night hawk?
    I feel my most energetic and intellectually stimulated at 2 in the morning!

    *what do you find endearing
    Shyness, humblness

    *who were you in high school
    The band nerd, we were proud of it though. With my band and non-band friends mixed in our little posse, we were the average joes of the school. Not popular, but not loners. We were popular in our own little group.

    *expressing emotion in front of others
    I prefer not to do so, but if the situation is really bad, I've been know to break down before.

    *gift giving and receiving
    I like making gifts and giving them to people I care about. I also like recieving them, but who doesn't?

    *touchy-feeliness
    If I'm in a relationship, sure. If I'm with close friends, sure. Strangers/aquantences? No.

    *sex drive
    It's very low. I'm waiting to have sex until marriage. I will not go farther than light kissing until then.

    *messiness/organization of living environment
    The one corner of my room is extremely messy...full of books, papers, coats and such from rushing to and from class. I am organized in other ways, though, such as documents and bookmarks on the computer.

    *time spent daydreaming
    All the time.

    *most crazy plan you schemed and succeeded with
    Planned a big birthday party? I have no idea.

    *fears
    Needles, drowning, burning alive.

    *hand tool adeptness
    I can manage.

    *traveling
    I'd love to, as long as I was with a close friend.

    *phobias
    Commitment, some social situations.

    *life goals
    Earn my PhD. Revolutionize the history and methods of psychology.

    *things that make you stressed
    Tardiness, deadlines when there's way too mouch to do, myself.

    *things that make you awkward in situations
    Faking interest, being caught off guard, not knowing how to react to a comment.

    *death: how you deal/what you think about it
    Personally? I know where I'm going so I'm fine. Others? I've never really had someone close to me die yet. *knocks on wood.*

    *what do you see as the point of life?
    Live it to the fullest. Accomplish what you want to, make a difference, be happy when it's all said and done. Leave this world on a positive note.

  8. #78
    Magical Firelie's Avatar
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    Career choices
    I'm in school studying graphic design right now. I'm hoping to make a career out of it, because I finally feel like I'm able to use my creativity to solve problems and it kinda floors me. I've been doing office administration for the last 7 years and I'm good at it, but I feel imcomplete while I'm doing it simply because there aren't enough problems to solve. I like solving problems.

    Friendships with the two genders (just plain gender ratios of who makes up your friend circles/how do you connect with other females/etc.)

    I get along with most other women and a lot of men as long as they're willing to accept a woman as an equal. However, I don't have close friendships of either gender.

    Paranoias

    I don't think I'm truly paranoid about anything.

    Feelings re: tattoos/piercings

    I think tattoos and piercings can be hot in moderation, but I don't feel I'm "punk" enough to pull off more than having the vanilla 2 pierced ears. Plus I don't wear jewelry much to begin with, so getting more piercings would be...pointless.

    Religion

    Brought up as a Christian, I consider myself an agnostic now, though.

    Academic interest areas

    Psychology, sociology, linguistics, languages, art (historic and present), design

    Types of guys you are romantically attracted to (or, i suppose, females, too)

    I won't lie, I love myself enough that I want to date a guy like me. LOL

    Sports

    We hates them.

    Music (what you listen to/what instruments you play)

    I don't play any instruments (man, I wish I had the time to learn the violin, though). I listen to all sorts of music, EXCEPT country. I like folk and alternative rock the most, though.

    Social skills

    I consider myself better at this than some other INTJs I've seen...mainly because I don't hate people and I get along with almost anyone I work or associate with. I think it helps to be patient and understanding.

    Parental relationships

    I adore my parents and they adore me.

    Interest in kids

    I don't mind them, I think a lot of parents don't teach them how to control themselves in public, though, which makes them annoying. I don't know, I think I'd be a good mother, but definitely not at this time in my life.

    How you act when you're in charge or leading something

    I'm not very good at leading people.

    Extra-curriculars

    I don't have any. :O

    Favorite authors/books/etc.
    George RR Martin, Martha Wells, Kristen Britain, Cecilia Dart-Thornton, Sarah Monette, Diana Marcellas, Sara Douglass

    Favorite movies/directors/actors/tv shows etc.

    I don't really like movies cuz they end. For TV shows, I like: Heroes, Dead Like Me, Futurama, What Not To Wear, CSI (the original), Law and Order, South Park, Stargate Atlantis/SG-1, So You Think You Can Dance, Trading Spaces

    Pet Peeves!!

    Oh boy...
    - People who talk incessantly
    - People who are arrogant and/or conceited, but dumb as bricks
    - Crooked pictures/badly placed pictures
    - People who assume that all fat people sit around eating twinkies all day
    - People who don't teach their children how to behave in public and let them run amok in stores, restaurants, etc.
    - People who use the word "gay" to mean "stupid"
    - People who don't realize they have excessively bad B.O. or that they smell like a poopy ass.
    - When a roll of toilet paper is installed with the paper against the wall...people who take the toilet paper out, pull off some to use, and then don't bother installing it on the roller even though it takes less than 10 seconds.
    - People who do the same process every day, but don't do it the same way every time.
    - When my cat whines to be let out of my room, then wants to come back in 30 seconds later after I've closed the door... because the world wasn't exciting as he thought it was out in the hall.

    How good are you with money

    My last roommate was amazed at my saving abilities, but I don't think I'm very good at it. I don't overdraw my account very often, though, so I guess I'm alright.

    Do you feel uncomfortable/out of character in a girly dress and a situation where you have to do the typical Girly Stuff?

    Yes. It can be fun to be "out of character" though. Especially when you're around people you don't know very well.

    How do you dress?

    Usually sloppy-casual, but I am going to have to start wearing professional clothing to work.

    Vices

    Junk food, too much TV/internet

    Known areas of inter-relational problems

    I've never had a boyfriend that lived within 500 miles of me. I think I'm afraid of having to deal with another human being face-to-face, wanting to hang out, wanting to "invade" my life.

    Are you a visual/auditory/interactive/argumentative etc. learner?

    I need to see something to remember it. If someone just tells me something, I could possibly forget it. If I see it written down, I will definitely remember it.

    Early riser vs. night hawk?

    My perfect hours would be waking up at 9 am and going to sleep at 1 am.

    Who were you in high school?

    I was the dork that all of the other dorks looked to as a leader.

    Expressing emotion in front of others

    I've done it a few times in my life. Once when I stepped on my pet lizard and made its guts pop out of its ass (age 10), when I crashed my mom's car into a guardrail (age 16), when my parents had my childhood best friend (my cat) put to sleep (age 18), when my uncle died in an airplane crash (age 21). Other than that, I'm usually either content or bored. People aren't sure what to do when I'm anything other than those two.

    Gift giving and receiving

    I love buying thoughtful gifts for people.

    Touchy-feeliness

    I get annoyed when people pursue that too much with me. I can stand a little.

    Sex drive

    I'd need a man for that. Mmmm...penis.

    Messiness/organization of living environment

    My room has many repeated attempts at organization, but it's a really tiny room, so it's hard NOT to mess it up. The rest of the house is well organized and tidy, though.

    Time spent daydreaming

    Getting less and less as I get older. I used to have my own imaginary worlds inside my head that I'd go invent when I was in high school. Then I was forced to grow up and get a job, so it's been disappearing more and more. I miss it, sometimes.

    Most crazy plan you schemed and succeeded with

    I'm afraid that's classified information.

    Fears

    My biggest fear is that I'm going to regret my life when I'm old.

    Traveling

    Oh, I wish I could travel so much...

    Phobias

    I don't really have any.

    Things that make you stressed

    Not getting school projects done that need to be done.

    Things that make you awkward in situations

    Direct, theoretical questions...like the kind they ask you in interviews (How do you think your former boss would describe you to me?)

    Death: how you deal/what you think about it

    I have aging parents, so I end up thinking about it a lot. It disturbs me, though, so I try not to think about it. It's one of the few things that I don't want to think about until I get there.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Kristiana's Avatar
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    Default Kristiana - Another female INTJ here!

    :wave:

    *Career choices
    Currently in graduate school for psychology, as well as working a part-time job I hate, out of necessity. I'd ideally like to work in youth ministry or something w/the mental health field before I graduate... and after I graduate, I'd like to be a professional counselor.

    *Friendships with the two genders (just plain gender ratios of who makes up your friend circles/how do you connect with other females/etc.)
    My husband is my best friend, and he is INTJ. After him, my closest friends are also INTJ guys. It is easiest for me to connect with N type females on a deeper level, but I can connect with most people on a basic level. I tend to prefer male company because I feel more understood and the whole competition dynamic w/me and them doesn't exist like it typically does between females.

    *Paranoias
    Feeling inferior to others, that people are pretending they like me when they really don't and are just being "nice"

    *Feelings re: tattoos/piercings
    I have no problem with them on other people, so long as they aren't vulgar tattoos or anything like that. I have three holes in each ear but recently became allergic to earrings, oh well. Not interested in getting any more piercings.

    *religion
    I'm a Christian, and my faith and my relationship with God are very important to me.

    *academic interest areas
    Psychology, sociology, biology, theology, philosophy

    *types of guys you are romantically attracted to (or, i suppose, females, too)
    Well now there is only one since I'm married... but I've always been drawn to INTJ guys, as friends or as whatever else.

    *sports
    Former gymnast, miss it, still love it. I've met the Hamm twins, if anyone knows who they are.

    *music (what you listen to/what instruments you play)
    Mostly listen to contemporary Christian music. I used to play piano but haven't seriously for some time.

    *social skills (because we can be all over the map, from the limited previous
    evidence volunteered by female INTJs on these boards)
    They have improved greatly.


    *parental relationships
    I'd say we're as close as possible despite the extreme personality differences (dad is ISTJ, very high S. mom is ESFJ, very strong on SF. I'm an extremely strong N so you can see the communication issues we face.)

    *interest in kids
    I can't have children for medical reasons. This doesn't bother me. I might want to adopt someday, but I don't know. Before I got sick, I was more interested in having kids someday, but my physical and emotional energy have considerably lessened in recent years.

    *how you act when you're in charge or leading something
    Informal, diplomatic, interested in others' contributions

    *extra-curriculars
    Currently a group discussion leader at church and member of the young adults' ministry. Used to be involved in all sorts of things: tutoring elementary schoolers, coaching gymnastics, Bible studies, briefly a sorority when I was in undergrad...

    *favorite authors/books/etc.
    G.K. Chesterton, C.S. Lewis, Ender series by Orson Scott Card, Francine Rivers, Harry Potter

    *favorite movies/directors/actors/tv shows etc.
    Movies: Donnie Darko, Butterfly Effect, Harry Potter series, Lord of the Rings series
    TV Shows: Bones, House, Lost


    *Pet Peeves!!
    People who get too far into your personal space without making sure it's ok with you, pushy people, invalidating people, narcissists

    *how good are you with money
    I'm a saver, usually very conservative

    *do you feel uncomfortable/out of character in a girly dress and a situation
    where you have to do the typical Girly Stuff?
    No, I actually enjoy wearing dresses and skirts. "Typical girly stuff" such as playing the happy homemaker makes me uncomfortable though.

    *how do you dress
    In spring/summer: cute tops with skirts and sandals, occasionally shorts or capris. This is a shirt I'd wear:
    This is a skirt I'd wear:
    (but not those two together, LOL)

    In fall/winter: Jeans or dressy pants, depending on the occasion. Fitted long-sleeve shirts. Something like this:



    *vices
    Impatience

    *known areas of inter-relational problems
    It has always been difficult to find somewhere I felt I belonged.

    *known areas of information acquiring problems (i.e. study
    methods/tips/areas of weakness/how you use your strengths to gather information)
    For relationships and communicating with others, MBTI helps


    *are you a visual/auditory/interactive/argumentative etc. learner?
    Typically a mix between independent and interactive. I need a combination of independence and affirmation/encouragement. I am more visual than auditory. I tend to dissociate very easily in lectures or sermons

    *early riser vs. night hawk?
    NIGHT OWL!!!

    *what do you find endearing
    Intellect mixed with social awkwardness, LOL.

    *who were you in high school
    I was the valedictorian, somewhat quirky, had a lot of acquaintances and casual friends but not many close friends. Somewhat of a loner.

    *expressing emotion in front of others
    I tend to be very dispassionate except around those I know very well and am very comfortable with.

    *gift giving and receiving
    I like both, haha

    *touchy-feeliness
    With my husband I'm extremely physically affectionate, as he is with me. With close friends, I don't mind close proximity and may welcome it, depending on who it is. With everyone else, stay away please!

    *sex drive
    I waited til marriage, and I'm not comfortable sharing anything else about the subject on this board, sorry

    *messiness/organization of living environment
    Our condo is entropy at its finest.

    *time spent daydreaming
    Often. Very often...

    *most crazy plan you schemed and succeeded with
    Sneaking into an all-boys' dorm at a university I didn't even attend, in order to visit an old friend.

    *fears
    Confidential!

    *hand tool adeptness
    I am horrible at that sort of thing.

    *traveling
    It's great fun with my husband.

    *phobias
    Already asked under fears!

    *life goals
    glorify God, love others and be loved

    *things that make you stressed
    being at a job i hate, annoying pushy extroverts

    *things that make you awkward in situations
    Dealing with pushy extroverts (notice a theme here? hahaha)

    *death: how you deal/what you think about it
    I have plenty of living to do first, as I'm only barely 24! as for how I deal with it, I try to trust God and that he has a plan for me and my loved ones. I don't believe death is the end.

    *what do you see as the point of life?
    see "life goals"
    j'adore les chats

  10. #80
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Just came here to relive my relationship with my INTJ
    she was very giving and inquisitive
    a romantic in her own steely and intense way
    aww.....
    *Si's for the rest of the evening*
    I N V I C T U S

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