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  1. #51
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Yes, I know that Theories are more concrete, but nothing in this world can be certain, except observable results. There is too much that we simply cannot observe, rendering most science ineffective as a proper explanation.

    Your question is not dirty. There are many people who don't need to know why, they just accept or believe. This is where faith comes in. Then there are others who must know why. This is where skepticism rears its head. It just depends on how you choose to look at life, and everything in it.
    Someone who looks at God and doesn't ask "why" is foolish. I have excepted that there are certain things I don't have satisfactory answers to yet (IMHO, that is true faith: trust and belief despite the absence of immediate answers), but if I keep looking, I find them, just as science does. And God wants me to seek Him, that's the only thing that really matters. It's just that most people don't look too hard because they don't want to except the difficulties associated with finding more of God--it causes accelereated growth and maturity that is painful, though the rewards, such as a relationship with God and having some of those questions answered, are worth it.

    Not that the piss-poor state of the current Church really encourages you or me to seek after the God they supposedly represent.
    Love is the point.

  2. #52
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    nope no religion. I've tried a few growing up, catholic, christian, lutheran, zen, atheism/agnostic. That doesn't mean I don't believe in any of it, I think I've just grown out of being bound to one particular religion, I like to learn the way of life, spiritual practices, wisdom and knowledge of other cultures and religions. It helps broaden my understanding of being human.

  3. #53
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Why not? It's pretty plain, IMO
    Because it's easy as hell to argue how any action is socially-driven. Whatever, it's irrelevant.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  4. #54
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Because most of it is all theory and speculation.
    But, unlike religion, theories in Science are up for falsification, so it's not analogous to religious theories and speculations. It openly allows itself to be scrutinized and wants* skeptics (this is the only reason Science has progressed).

    *wants may imply Science as a sentient being, which, of course, is not the case.

    Or, I should add, there are quantifiable results that are turned into Laws, but the reason behind the Laws are unproven. Kind of like religion.
    But, Science makes no claim that it is going to provide such reasons (or be successful doing it). Religion does (arrogantly so).

    Which is why I'm having a hard time understanding how Science is like a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    It's just that most people don't look too hard because they don't want to except the difficulties associated with finding more of God-
    except --> accept

    Sorry, not trying to be nit-picky, just a recent encounter has made me sensitive to this error:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...19-post30.html

  5. #55
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Because it's easy as hell to argue how any action is socially-driven. Whatever, it's irrelevant.
    Isn't that because human evolution for the last 5 million years has been primarily socially-driven?

  6. #56
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's because I'm unabashedly a species chauvinist. As far as I'm concerned, since we'll never know what happens empirically in the absence of an observer, how can you hold the pure empirical standard to it? That's more the realm of theoretical mathematics, which requires no observation, just comparisons of known relationships in the universe. Einstein pieced together general relativity and universal gravitation on a serendipitous hunch he had one day - but it was right because the math worked.
    Yeah, that's kind of what I mean. Inefficient.

    My question was more one of "why are we asking why in the first place, when it's something that we cannot understand through any data we collect?" I realize that's not a very N sounding question, but then again, that's where Ne and Ni are different (as you're undoubtedly aware of).
    I thought I answered this already, but I mean that some people actually believe that they will be one of the lucky ones in which all is revealed. So they keep looking. This goes for religion, as well as science. See below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    Someone who looks at God and doesn't ask "why" is foolish. I have excepted that there are certain things I don't have satisfactory answers to yet (IMHO, that is true faith: trust and belief despite the absence of immediate answers), but if I keep looking, I find them, just as science does. And God wants me to seek Him, that's the only thing that really matters. It's just that most people don't look too hard because they don't want to except the difficulties associated with finding more of God--it causes accelereated growth and maturity that is painful, though the rewards, such as a relationship with God and having some of those questions answered, are worth it.

    Not that the piss-poor state of the current Church really encourages you or me to seek after the God they supposedly represent.
    To this quote I must say that, for me, the reliance on a church to come to a spiritual answer is a big hindrance for me. I truly wish to associate with no organization and follow no religious leader, or text. I am agnostic, meaning that I am without knowledge and don't know what to believe. But I will surely believe in God before I believe in Man.

  7. #57
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Sorry for the extra post, but I didn't see Q's response when I posted mine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    But, unlike religion, theories in Science are up for falsification, so it's not analogous to religious theories and speculations. It openly allows itself to be scrutinized and wants* skeptics (this is the only reason Science has progressed).

    *wants may imply Science as a sentient being, which, of course, is not the case.
    I'm not so sure about that. You may be thinking only of a certain religion or sect, but there are Divinity schools even in the Ivy League. And the long tradition of Judaism surely promotes research and knowledge. In fact, there are certain texts men are not even allowed to read until age 40, to make sure that their minds are receptive and probing enough to read and study it.

    I believe that most religion encourages questioning and research. It's only when it is filtered down through people that may otherwise want to control you, or large groups of people, that questioning is discouraged.

    But, Science makes no claim that it is going to provide such reasons (or be successful doing it). Religion does (arrogantly so).

    Which is why I'm having a hard time understanding how Science is like a religion?
    Just because science isn't successful, it doesn't mean that it doesn't try to be successful. A main purpose of science is to provide explanations. And because you feel that religion is arrogant doesn't discount that it is also there in order to provide explanations. The only difference is that many religions claim to have all the answers, while science has only claimed to have some of them.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by SubjectA View Post
    I am a rarity among NT's. I do believe in God. That being said, I'm not a Creationist and I do lend credit to the Big Bang Theory (FYI ironically it was first suggested by a Catholic priest.) I'm not a fatalist. And being a biology major, not once have I ran into a piece of information that made me question my faith and I've never had to rationalize in vain any scientific concept in order to keep my faith. Science has only made me further appreciate the complexities of God's creation.
    This, pretty much exactly. To me, there's no conflict. Science tries to explain what happened after the Big Bang. Religion tries to explain what happened before it.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    This, pretty much exactly. To me, there's no conflict. Science tries to explain what happened after the Big Bang. Religion tries to explain what happened before it.
    I'm not an NT but I totally agree with this.

  10. #60
    Member Lithium Onyx's Avatar
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    I was raised Christian - mainly Roman Catholic - by both my parents, and am now agnostic.

    In my preteen years I spend a lot of time exploring different religions and I really took to Hinduism, Shintoism and Zen Buddhism. Although I discovered many faiths I liked, ultimately it seemed like there was no one answer. Whether or not there truly is a higher power, it hasn't much effect on my life, so I'm indifferent to the idea.
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