User Tag List

First 123

Results 21 to 29 of 29

  1. #21
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberrylover View Post
    To jenocyde

    Wow. I deleted that post shortly after writing because I didn't want to fan the flames of whatever this is becoming, but since you responded:

    There are private details about my father and my family that led to my wanting to ask for help -- details that I don't especially want to divulge to strangers on an internet forum. IMO, the logical thing, the most respectful thing for professor goodstain to do would've been to ask for more details before jumping to conclusions. Without doing so, he was making pronouncements that were wildly off the mark and inflammatory to boot. I'm not sure how you think someone should respond to basically being accused of being a psychologically unhealthy person who's just projecting all of her issues onto her father. I can only say that that's not what's happening here. If you happen to disagree with that -- well, you don't really know me or my father, so I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.
    I am not the Prof and you can take it up with him. If you don't want to address anything I wrote, that's your right.

    Good luck with your father.

  2. #22
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Why do you keep deleting posts?

  3. #23
    . Blank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    1,202

    Default

    It's the save-face technique.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    You shouldn't have asked for ideas or opinions if you only wanted those that matched yours. You know this man more than we do, but you didn't address the points that Prof brought up. I expected exactly that from an NF... (see how that argument makes no sense?)

    You are very quick to dismiss, but not as quick to explain. So don't get upset if we jump to conclusions based on the limited facts you posted. And if someone does give advice that resonates with you, I don't see you dismissing them based on limited facts... it's hypocritical. We all saw the same facts and came to different conclusions, but only ours were dismissed.
    Well, I dismissed them because you and goodstain didn't ask for more details before jumping to conclusions -- and made some pretty blunt remarks to boot.

    See how that doesn't make any sense? Without knowing me or my father, he wrote that my father's Ti is fine and that I'm likely an unhealthy ENFP. Am I supposed to take that seriously as being worth of a response? How is dismissing an inflammatory remark being hypocritical?

    If you want to know if I'm projecting, just ask. And since we're complete strangers, you'll just have to take my word that I'm not.

    You mentioned that his dominant Ti may be defunct. How are you judging that? His lack of socialization does not equate to his lack of Ti. In addition, it's not as if you presented him as someone who became this way recently (e.g. sank into depression), but as someone who has exhibited the same behavior for at least 20 years. So why is he now all of a sudden a concern? His personality may just be his personality.
    It's not his lack of socialization so much as the underlying resentment, bitterness and close-mindedness that are completely at odds with his intelligence. I think his Ti may be defunct due to his upbringing during the Cultural Revolution in China, when propaganda and mob violence ruled. Let me put it this way: Chinese education in that era didn't teach you how to think, it just taught you what. It didn't teach you how to peacefully coexist within a society, it just taught you how to survive. And while my father is highly intelligent, if he didn't receive the training and practice he needed when he was young to know how to think, is there any way I can help him now?

    I think immigration has just made his situation worse. Had he stayed in China, he would've risen in academia, gained a ton of self-esteem and kept developing his intellect. But since we moved here, he just hasn't been able to do that.

    My understanding of INTPs is that they formulate a logical framework for their sense of self and as a path for self-growth. What if that logical framework was based on faulty propagandist thinking (thanks China) from his youth, which became defunct when he immigrated to the US? How does one break out of that and embrace a new logical worldview? I get the sense from him that he really wants to break out, but he just doesn't know how.

  5. #25
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    ^^ Just for the rest of y'all, I'd be inclined to take her at face value. Remember, that was the era when Communist movements didn't value intellectualism at all, even brutally suppressing intellectuals (such as in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge).

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Why do you keep deleting posts?
    Because it's 2 am and my fingers move faster than my brain.

    I reposted. Read above.

  7. #27
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberrylover View Post
    Well, I dismissed them because you and goodstain didn't ask for more details before jumping to conclusions -- and made some pretty blunt remarks to boot.
    Most people didn't ask for more details before offering opinions...

    I know that the prof wasn't as nice as he could have been, but that's something you should ask him to explain. I could also explain why he wrote what he did, but I am all tapped out from these types of conversations. I saw the points he was making about perception and comfort level and offered them up as a possibility. I then asked for more details. You can accept that or not, but I was coming from a genuine place of wanting to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberrylover View Post
    It's not his lack of socialization so much as the underlying resentment, bitterness and close-mindedness that are completely at odds with his intelligence. I think his Ti may be defunct due to his upbringing during the Cultural Revolution in China, when propaganda and mob violence ruled. Let me put it this way: Chinese education in that era didn't teach you how to think, it just taught you what. It didn't teach you how to peacefully coexist within a society, it just taught you how to survive. And while my father is highly intelligent, if he didn't receive the training and practice he needed when he was young to know how to think, is there any way I can help him now?

    I think immigration has just made his situation worse. Had he stayed in China, he would've risen in academia, gained a ton of self-esteem and kept developing his intellect. But since we moved here, he just hasn't been able to do that.

    My understanding of INTPs is that they formulate a logical framework for their sense of self and as a path for self-growth. What if that logical framework was based on faulty propagandist thinking (thanks China) from his youth, which became defunct when he immigrated to the US? How does one break out of that and embrace a new logical worldview? I get the sense from him that he really wants to break out, but he just doesn't know how.
    I understand and am aware of all of this, but if he's been this way for 20 years or more, what makes you think he'd be open to the suggestions presented here? If he hasn't been receptive before, what would change now? Do you think that you should seek professional help with this?

    I'm not sure if his functions are defunct or just focused on the "wrong" things. You mentioned he spends a lot of time reading Chinese sites. This suggests that he is still information gathering, which is a positive sign. It seems like he is in a Ti-Si phase which can be terribly reclusive. Unfortunately bitterness often comes with intelligence, especially when coupled with failed dreams. I sincerely don't believe that someone so far gone will magically change by a few books and a day trip. Especially if he's an extreme introvert.

    I missed any response you wrote saying if he was employed... What does he do all day long? If he enjoys these Chinese sites, it could be helpful to engage him on that level and try to get him to talk about his past experiences there, and maybe segue that into him speaking to a therapist. If you really think this thing with him is so far gone and has lasted so many years, I doubt a band aid will make it better.

    Again, good luck with your dad.

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Most people didn't ask for more details before offering opinions... I know that the prof wasn't as nice as he could have been, but that's something you should ask him to explain.
    But most people weren't making inflammatory statements, and many asked for details along with offering opinions. It's not my job to ask someone to explain when they didn't want to understand this situation in the first place.

    I could also explain why he wrote what he did, but I am all tapped out from these types of conversations. I saw the points he was making about perception and comfort level and offered them up as a possibility. I then asked for more details. You can accept that or not, but I was coming from a genuine place of wanting to help.
    Thanks for clarifying. Re-reading your post from before, I did get the sense that you wanted to help, which was why I replied in more detail.

    I understand and am aware of all of this, but if he's been this way for 20 years or more, what makes you think he'd be open to the suggestions presented here? If he hasn't been receptive before, what would change now? Do you think that you should seek professional help with this?
    He doesn't believe in therapy or Western psychology. For private reasons having to do with my family, he's just in a better place right now than he's been in a long time. It's still not all that great, but there are signs he's becoming just a little more curious and secure in himself, and I'd like to help him develop that.

    I'm not sure if his functions are defunct or just focused on the "wrong" things. You mentioned he spends a lot of time reading Chinese sites. This suggests that he is still information gathering, which is a positive sign. It seems like he is in a Ti-Si phase which can be terribly reclusive. Unfortunately bitterness often comes with intelligence, especially when coupled with failed dreams. I sincerely don't believe that someone so far gone will magically change by a few books and a day trip. Especially if he's an extreme introvert. I missed any response you wrote saying if he was employed... What does he do all day long? If he enjoys these Chinese sites, it could be helpful to engage him on that level and try to get him to talk about his past experiences there, and maybe segue that into him speaking to a therapist. If you really think this thing with him is so far gone and has lasted so many years, I doubt a band aid will make it better.
    I don't believe a few books and a day trip would help either. This is just to start the process.

    He works, but it doesn't make use of his intelligence. The Chinese sites could be Ti processing, but when I've asked him about them, he would just treat those sites with disdain. I think he actually wants to read other things and have other outlets for his intelligence. It's just that due to resentment of the US "changing the rules on him," he doesn't give any US media a chance.

    After posting about the Cultural Revolution last night, I wondered if he might actually be afraid of his Ti because he grew up when intelligence could actually get you jailed, labeled a dissident or worse. I hope I can find some way to show him that it's ok.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    4,915

    Default

    Hi.

    I have only skimmed the responses so apologies if this has already been mentioned. When i went over to Canada, i found and used this organisation Ottawa Community Immigrant Services Organization (OCISO) - Main Page

    Does America have anything similar that your father may benefit from.
    Could you possibly leave some literature lying around for him to read so he can make up his own mind if he would like to pursue it further.
    Just a possible option if its available.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

Similar Threads

  1. Help me find my type: INFJ? INTP?
    By kav2330 in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 08-23-2011, 08:31 PM
  2. [INTP] need help with a girl (I'm INTP)
    By think2much in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-05-2010, 09:37 PM
  3. [INTP] need help with a girl (I'm INTP)
    By think2much in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 03-24-2010, 06:01 PM
  4. [INTP] Jules and Kamala - The INTP version of 'love' (hehehe)
    By Misty_Mountain_Rose in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-23-2009, 12:41 PM
  5. [ISFJ] Help me understand and respect my ISFJ mate?
    By crandolph in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 01-16-2008, 03:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO