User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 29

  1. #11
    The Architect Alwar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    922

    Default

    Is there a Chinese community nearby? Like a Chinatown?

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    It's blanketed despair. It may be that he's feeling the brunt of his 'uselessness' (perceived only, of course) because this nation (USA) might not be willing to recognize his merit in academia like China did. The opportunities he was in the process of gaining, when in China, that got short-cutted due to immigration...there may be some resentment of USA due to that. Esp. cuz, he may have encountered...: yeah, for US standards, your 'academia' is not good enough. It's a slap in the face to one's pride, which may lead to despair. The subsequent strong-hold to refuse to change because the changers (US culture) cannot find merit in him, while realizing that it just makes him stagnant if such ideals stop him from joining the rat race (US society). It's a vicious mental cycle.
    This is exactly it.

    So what you think is going on is: US not recognizing his credentials --> feelings of uselessness, despair and resentment --> refusing to change because the changers didn't accept him in the first place --> becoming stagnant --> US not recognizing his skills --> feelings of uselessness...

    I guess my best hope of helping him would be stepping in mid-cycle at "refusing to change." Because I have assimilated into the US, I can show as his daughter that the "changers" can accept him.

    There is no Chinatown nearby. We're in kind of a suburban area. There's definitely a Chinese community, but I just get frustrated even thinking of taking him to something because he's always expressed such disdain for China in general -- and not just the politics either, but also the way people think over there.

    Background: His family were dissidents and he basically grew up being pummeled by other kids for being politically different. I'd hate my own country too if I had to deal with crap like that.

    If you are willing to engage with your surly dad, and, bypass his surliness to what the man's ideas, dreams, hopes, etc. are, and, slowly get him to open up, it might not be as tough figuring out those cultural values, and, even, his interests.
    Good advice. I'll do my best.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phthalocyanine View Post
    bring him somewhere that places little emphasis on language or speaking in general, but where a good number of people are still present .. perhaps an aquarium, public garden, or some other serene environment in which he can observe people and choose whether to interact with them or not. take it slow. he will appreciate your patience and will reject your efforts if they seem hassled. always make it clear that you are thinking of his well-being rather than your own in reaching out to him.


    appeal to his sense of humor when he becomes too shy or pessimistic, and remind him that it serves a functional purpose to learn about the english language and american culture. remind him that he can pass on important information to a wider number of people if he speaks more than one language! most NTs will find merit there.. and remind him that he will have a lot more fun at museums and observatories when he can easily read the brouchures and informational placques.
    This is great advice as well. Thanks!

    Do you think buying books for him would be a good idea? Or would that be kind of insulting to his intelligence?

  4. #14
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    681

    Default

    i think i would talk to him and listen to his perspective a bit before i decided on whether or not to buy the books. if you got the books for him and presented them to him now, even as a kind gesture, he might, as you said, take it as an insult to his intelligence or competency (a terrible blow for an INTP; avoid this at all costs).
    i think he will most likely tell you (or give you hints about) what his boundaries are where that stuff is concerned as soon as the floor is open between you two.

    also, i think it's very nice that you would be willing to go and get books for him in the event that he wanted them but felt hesitant to get them on his own. you could end up being the support he has needed but not been able to ask for. i think INTPs, in general, are very much worth the patience.. it's glorious to watch their enthusiasm grow.

  5. #15
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    Are your parents divorced?

    Find him a nice white woman who will change him. Don't be resistant to America!
    no. :rolli:

    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Your OP is your perception of him. There is nothing wrong with him. If you are worried about this in his older age, don't. He will more than likely out live you. He doesn't like the politics of China but the culture he did enjoy maybe. He doesn't like the cultural politics of the US but the freedom he does enjoy maybe. His Ti is just fine. And who are you to draw conclusions about Ti. Perhaps it is you who is an unhealthy ENFP. With all of your expectations that someone should be so accepting of the decay and baggage our culture evolved, (i should write 'social culture') this may be very similar to threads that wonder why people ask "Why are you angry" or say "Smile!" or ask "are you Ok?" Get off his ass already. Let him enjoy his freedom of expression.
    yes. this is more than likely.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberrylover View Post
    This is exactly it.

    So what you think is going on is: US not recognizing his credentials --> feelings of uselessness, despair and resentment --> refusing to change because the changers didn't accept him in the first place --> becoming stagnant --> US not recognizing his skills --> feelings of uselessness...

    I guess my best hope of helping him would be stepping in mid-cycle at "refusing to change." Because I have assimilated into the US, I can show as his daughter that the "changers" can accept him.
    I know because I faced this with my parents, hence, I could pick up on what the underlying issue likely is. It's harder to acclimatize to a different culture when you're middle-aged.

    And, you accurately picked up where the 'intervention' will need to be: the 'refusing to change' mentality.

    There is no Chinatown nearby. We're in kind of a suburban area. There's definitely a Chinese community, but I just get frustrated even thinking of taking him to something because he's always expressed such disdain for China in general -- and not just the politics either, but also the way people think over there.
    You can't know if everyone in that Chinese community has herd-mentality that your dad will reject. There may be just that one who shares his pov, and that one may be enough. It's taking a chance - 50-50. Not taking a chance is 0-100, not in your favour. And, that's what you have to get into his head: take a chance, give it a try.

    I'll do my best.
    And, that's all you can do, given that you are not projecting your assumptions on him, and you truly see him to be unfulfilled and unhappy with his state of being. Only then intervene. Good luck!

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    You can't know if everyone in that Chinese community has herd-mentality that your dad will reject. There may be just that one who shares his pov, and that one may be enough. It's taking a chance - 50-50. Not taking a chance is 0-100, not in your favour. And, that's what you have to get into his head: take a chance, give it a try.
    Right. The difficulty has been that I know that not everyone in the Chinese community is the same, but I don't know if he knows that. If he does, why hasn't he himself reached out to them all these years? You see where the problem is? He doesn't really like the US, but he hates China as well. Like I said in the OP, he's a nowhere man, neither here nor there.

    I see that everyone's focusing on connecting him with Chinese culture and people, assuming that he still wants this. I'm just not sure he does.

    And, that's all you can do, given that you are not projecting your assumptions on him, and you truly see him to be unfulfilled and unhappy with his state of being. Only then intervene. Good luck!
    Thanks. I don't think I'm projecting. I've seen this isolating behavior from him for too long and I've seen him when he's been happy and fulfilled -- he just hasn't been that way in a long time.

  8. #18
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberrylover View Post
    Right, because an inability to connect with people, growing resentment and alienation for almost 20 years should be taken as a sign of health and "freedom of expression." Wow.

    And who is this "professor goodstain" to say that his Ti is just fine anyway? Because he knows my father so well from a description (one that left out many details) that I put on an internet forum? NTs, I expected better from you.
    You shouldn't have asked for ideas or opinions if you only wanted those that matched yours. You know this man more than we do, but you didn't address the points that Prof brought up. I expected exactly that from an NF... (see how that argument makes no sense?)

    You are very quick to dismiss, but not as quick to explain. So don't get upset if we jump to conclusions based on the limited facts you posted. And if someone does give advice that resonates with you, I don't see you dismissing them based on limited facts... it's hypocritical. We all saw the same facts and came to different conclusions, but only ours were dismissed.

    While the Prof isn't exactly eloquent in his approach, is there any truth to what he says? Is your father truly unhappy or do you just think that is what you would be like if you were unhappy?

    You mentioned that his dominant Ti may be defunct. How are you judging that? His lack of socialization does not equate to his lack of Ti. In addition, it's not as if you presented him as someone who became this way recently (e.g. sank into depression), but as someone who has exhibited the same behavior for at least 20 years. So why is he now all of a sudden a concern? His personality may just be his personality.

    Is it that you are concerned about his well being or is the real fear that you may have to take care of him in his old age?

    Maybe taking him to Chinatown will help, but if you were really concerned about his mental state, wouldn't it be more helpful to seek the help of a professional? If he never wanted to do activities, why would he do them now?

    Yeah, this is what you should expect from an NT.

  9. #19
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,755

    Default

    Does he have money or not? That can make alot of difference.

    Does he have a job there? The best way to mingle in with the culture is get a job.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  10. #20
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    Start exploring. Get the Ne muscle flexing, seeking out the infinite connections. Maybe a long road trip is in order for him?

    What does he know about the US, other than a country he emigrated to? Maybe he should discover this country for himself.

Similar Threads

  1. Help me find my type: INFJ? INTP?
    By kav2330 in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 08-23-2011, 08:31 PM
  2. [INTP] need help with a girl (I'm INTP)
    By think2much in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-05-2010, 09:37 PM
  3. [INTP] need help with a girl (I'm INTP)
    By think2much in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 03-24-2010, 06:01 PM
  4. [INTP] Jules and Kamala - The INTP version of 'love' (hehehe)
    By Misty_Mountain_Rose in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-23-2009, 12:41 PM
  5. [ISFJ] Help me understand and respect my ISFJ mate?
    By crandolph in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 01-16-2008, 03:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO