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  1. #51
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ENTPs don't waste time thinking about other people? Here we are discussing this on a typology forum...?

    I assume this must be deadpan/subtle self-mockery for the self-centered attitude ENTPs are sometimes known for?

    I'm frankly a little confused.




    This is a nearly ubiquitous mistake regarding ISTJs! They're just risk-averse, not mindless tradition zombies. Their Te dislikes tradition when it gets in the way of completing measurable goals just like yours does--the desire that everyone mistakes as "staunch traditionalism" in Si is actually just cautious risk-aversion. (btw, in my experience most arbitrary insistence on tradition for its own sake comes from the more emotional Fe...you'll hear a lot more arguments on purely traditionalist grounds from SFJs than you will from STJs, for sure!)

    ISTJs above age 35 or so do seem to have more of a traditionalist bent, but that's because they weren't raised in the information age.

    Since the dawning of the internet and the vast wealth of knowledge it provides almost instantly, Si's need to be prepared by knowing all about the standard methods and having a detailed plan gains enormous advantage and no longer has to stick to "tradition" just to be safe.

    In truth, it's a big misconception that SJs are inherently traditional--they're not; they're just really cautious, and before the information age following tradition was just the only realistic option for maintaining long term stability through a cautious and measured approach.

    THIS is what SJs value, not upholding stupid traditions and arbitrary rules for no reason. Most of the ISTJ profiles floating around are just outright wrong.




    There's no such thing as "polar opposite" temperaments; that doesn't make sense because Keirsey's temperaments aren't linear across the same MBTI stats. Two of the SJ types share a Thinking preference with NTs, and for two of the NT types (INTJ/ENTJ) it's actually the same one (Te.)

    ISTP is more likely to confuse with INTP, and ISTJ more likely with INTJ. The function that relates each of these pairs is Thinking; Ti for the former and Te for the latter.
    I think this is right on the money.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  2. #52
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    I read the INTP description. Sounds nothing like me, and I have no desire to be one. Not saying they are inferior, but I'm content with who I am.

  3. #53
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    I am not tradition based. I've read that too in my descriptions, and I can't reconcile it. Most traditions are inconveniences, have no feeling behind them, and are done to satisfy some touchy feely aspect.

    Like Valentines Day- dumb tradition. I'll never buy my girl something on February 14 because it's expected. It's just a chance to get in my pockets. I'll get my girl something when the feeling hits.

  4. #54
    Senior Member ed111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I am not tradition based. I've read that too in my descriptions, and I can't reconcile it. Most traditions are inconveniences, have no feeling behind them, and are done to satisfy some touchy feely aspect.

    Like Valentines Day- dumb tradition. I'll never buy my girl something on February 14 because it's expected. It's just a chance to get in my pockets. I'll get my girl something when the feeling hits.
    I've read through all of the ISTJ type descriptions and a lot of them do mention following tradition.

    However, now I come to think about it, I think you're right. My ISTJ mother is not religious, never goes to church and didn't have me christened despite being brought up as a catholic.

    I would say though that I think ISTJ are generally conservative ( in the best sense ), like things to be ordered and predictable, tend to respect authority and like to follow social norms.

  5. #55
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed111 View Post
    I've read through all of the ISTJ type descriptions and a lot of them do mention following tradition.

    However, now I come to think about it, I think you're right. My ISTJ mother is not religious, never goes to church and didn't have me christened despite being brought up as a catholic.

    I would say thought that I think ISTJ are generally conservative ( in the best sense ), like things to be ordered and predictable, tend to respect authority and like to follow social norms.
    I'd qualify 'like to follow social norms'. Personally I accept them if it makes sense and is indicative of good manners and consideration. If it's something that is expected but makes no sense- then no. I can't think of one here at work, but I will and put it here.

  6. #56
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    The bullshit about ISTJs all being tradition lackeys mostly if not entirely comes from David Keirsey.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed111 View Post
    I've read through all of the ISTJ type descriptions and a lot of them do mention following tradition.
    Exactly. On the surface, ISTJ may look like they follow traditions because they are traditions, but internally, we follow them because they make sense to us and have a more certain outcome.

  8. #58
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The bullshit about ISTJs all being tradition lackeys mostly if not entirely comes from David Keirsey.
    When you have a cautious and conservative temperament, as many ISTJs do, adherence to tradition is often what naturally follows. It's an obvious connection to make.

    Not all SJs are rigid traditionalists, but if you're a rigid traditionalist, you're probably an SJ.

  9. #59
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    INTP's and ISTJ's are remarkably different... I can see how it's difficult for the personality typing layman to differentiate between the two since they both can seem 'cold', 'aloof', and 'quiet'.

    However... INTP's are abstract in communication, pragmatic when dealing with people, and prefer informing over directing.
    ISTJ's are concrete in communication, cooperative when dealing with people, and prefer directing over informing.

    Many of the INTP's on INTPCentral could very well not be INTP's though.. I'll give you that.
    MBTI Type: iNTj
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  10. #60
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    Many of the INTP's on INTPCentral could very well not be INTP's though.. I'll give you that.
    New thread, new thread, new thread!



    I will say though, I've met 5 typed INTPs (not on this forum) compared to the 1 ISTJ irl. I think it may have to do with the fact that intuitives are drawn more to typology/testing than SJ's? My ISTJ friend only took the test at my request.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

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