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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Why does it matter what people think of you or INTPs? Just let them believe whatever they want to believe in.
    To put it simply. Negative stereotypes get in the way (of people listening, people providing resources, of people providing opportunities, etc.)
    Call it engaging Ne to apply theory to the real world (which incidentally has people in it).

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The reason I find this thread demeaning is because of the subtle suggestion that praise may be needed in order to help the INTP function. You'd annoy an INTP more by invoking their feeling side than by supporting their feelings.
    Are you sure that in general INTPs don't need praise? I think that is more a Neuroticism/Emotional Stability thing (a factor left off of MBTI). Neurotics are more needy (which, I am beginning to believe, for INTPs, is a good thing).

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    95/5 is norm for the INTP on the third dichotomy, this means dealing with F at all is troublesome, whether this be a positive or negative emotional experience.
    I'd like to know how you come to these conclusions.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Why does it matter what people think of you or INTPs? Just let them believe whatever they want to believe in.

    The reason I find this thread demeaning is because of the subtle suggestion that praise may be needed in order to help the INTP function. You'd annoy an INTP more by invoking their feeling side than by supporting their feelings.

    95/5 is norm for the INTP on the third dichotomy, this means dealing with F at all is troublesome, whether this be a positive or negative emotional experience.
    I didn't suggest that INTPs need praise, not intetionally, at least.
    I see your objection now, and I am rather surprised. My intention was to talk about one of the MBTI types, nevermind if it is the INTP or whatever, for the same reason there are all those discussions about MBTI: to express opinions, points of view, etc. Most of us are not experts on MBTI types, so obviously many of the opinions would be of less relevance. My intention was not for anybody to take this personaly or as an emotional experience.

  3. #23
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    To put it simply. Negative stereotypes get in the way (of people listening, people providing resources, of people providing opportunities, etc.)
    Call it engaging Ne to apply theory to the real world (which incidentally has people in it).


    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Are you sure that in general INTPs don't need praise? I think that is more a Neuroticism/Emotional Stability thing (a factor left off of MBTI). Neurotics are more needy (which, I am beginning to believe, for INTPs, is a good thing)..
    Feelers tend to make decisions based on feelings and self-assessments as well. They need positive feelings in order to be sound, for this reason they need to be in harmony with others. A neurotic Thinker would be more disturbed by the same T 'pet-peeves' (being incompetent or not having a clear notion of what he is dealing with)than a healthy thinker, but he would not depend on emotional approval of others in order to feel good. Just like you told INTJMom last night 'it hurts, but confuses me more'. Your pet-peeve was being confused (you were irked about this more than a healthy thinker would be), not having feelings hurt. You were upset not for personal reasons, but for impersonal, because she made an utterance that by T standards was unacceptable. Whilst I, also a Thinker, was annoyed too, but to a much lesser extent than you were because I am low on neuroticism and you are high.





    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I'd like to know how you come to these conclusions.
    Introverted Functions are stronger than Extroverted because they are concerned with the archetypal quiddity of the faculty itself, whilst the Extroverted Functions are concerned with applying the faculty to the external world. Ti is the radical T faculty, as T as it gets. INTP is more of a thinker than an ISTP because the N strengthens the T, hence NTs tend to be more T oriented than STs for this reason. 95/5 is the figure to represent the highest thinking preferrence that there is.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  4. #24
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    BlueWing, you're like the INTP Cheerleading Squad, Booster Club, and Marching Band all rolled into one.

    These positive qualities are based on the INTPs in my life.

    Bro
    - is the family peacekeeper
    - good at finding solutions that keep everyone happy
    - very sympathetic (although somewhat brusque, but I need that every now and then)
    -very charming and funny
    -cares about how he is perceived by others; is very aware of his "image" (I think this is a positive)
    -the best shopping partner ever! He'll tell me if my ass looks big in something and I know it's the truth
    - romantic with his girlfriend. I once saw him start singing (very badly) to his girlfriend and it was the cutest thing ever
    -cares about the world he lives in. Is very socially aware and has told me about stuff I never knew about

    Friend
    -introduced me to Battlestar Gallactica and House (just when I was about to throw my TV from the top of a building)
    -very easy to get along with and chill
    -sympathetic in her own way and it's very meaningful to me
    -smart as all get out
    -she puts up with me and all my drama in a way only my family does and that means a lot also
    -good listener
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    2. Don't expect inexhaustible empathy or politeness, easy to talk to when you feel emotionally drained.
    Honestly, sometimes I even start getting rather annoyed when someone is overly polite or empathetic.

    A little bit goes a long way, at least in terms of my receiving such, if I am trying to discuss a topic or find an answer or relay how I'm feeling and all I am getting is "mirror empathy" or people trying to protect my feelings...
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Feelers tend to make decisions based on feelings and self-assessments as well. They need positive feelings in order to be sound, for this reason they need to be in harmony with others. A neurotic Thinker would be more disturbed by the same T 'pet-peeves' (being incompetent or not having a clear notion of what he is dealing with)than a healthy thinker, but he would not depend on emotional approval of others in order to feel good. Just like you told INTJMom last night 'it hurts, but confuses me more'. Your pet-peeve was being confused (you were irked about this more than a healthy thinker would be), not having feelings hurt. You were upset not for personal reasons, but for impersonal, because she made an utterance that by T standards was unacceptable. Whilst I, also a Thinker, was annoyed too, but to a much lesser extent than you were because I am low on neuroticism and you are high.
    I can somewhat see what you are saying. But I think both positives and negatives (desired and undesired outcomes) need to be analyzed to devise a good leverage-oriented-model of the world.



    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Introverted Functions are stronger than Extroverted because they are concerned with the archetypal quiddity of the faculty itself, whilst the Extroverted Functions are concerned with applying the faculty to the external world. Ti is the radical T faculty, as T as it gets. INTP is more of a thinker than an ISTP because the N strengthens the T, hence NTs tend to be more T oriented than STs for this reason. 95/5 is the figure to represent the highest thinking preferrence that there is.
    This also seems unfounded. What are your basic assumptions, your relevant "axioms", if you will? I think we may disagree on those, even.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  7. #27
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I can somewhat see what you are saying. But I think both positives and negatives (desired and undesired outcomes) need to be analyzed to devise a good leverage-oriented-model of the world.





    This also seems unfounded. What are your basic assumptions, your relevant "axioms", if you will? I think we may disagree on those, even.
    Introversion is an attitude that defines the world in accordance to the way it relates to the self. Extroversion defines the self in accordance to the way it relates to the world.

    Hence, Introverted Thinking, takes the internal thinking process for granted. Extroverted Thinking doesn't. For instance. For this reason all Introverted functions are stronger than the extroverted because they are more in tune with the quiddity of the function in itself.

    We use Thinking and Feeling to make decisions, this is a cerebral process. Judging and perceiving we use to deal with the external world. Hence, since Intuition is more in tune with the cerebral than sensing, it supports the T or F.

    Whilst S supports the way we do things, so it supports either J or P.

    What makes an NT stand out amidst all types if not their Thinking faculty(Rational)? NF, Feeling faculty(Healer)? SJ(Guardian,J-responsible), Judging faculty? SP(Artisan), perceiving faculty?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    What makes an NT stand out amidst all types if not their Thinking faculty(Rational)? NF, Feeling faculty(Healer)? SJ(Guardian,J-responsible), Judging faculty? SP(Artisan), perceiving faculty?
    This last part made it clear to me what you meant. But I think you are taking archetypes and overgeneralizing based on those notions (though I still see the notions of introverted vs. extroverted judging strength of preference largely unfounded, unless you can rephrase or extrapolate).

    I can see how a symbolic NT is more T than a symbolic STJ or STP (who is more SJ or SP in temperament).

    Life themes and environmental pressures also color what a person's preference is.

    It is quite a leap to extrapolate from a symbolic representation of people to actual percentages of preference among a population. But if you are backed up by evidence later, then, my hats-off to you.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #29
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I find this thread more demeaning than the 'rant on INTPs'.
    I almost agree, but I find it easier to imagine this thing as worthwhile when stepping into the shoes of ENTP. It shares the same functions and can at least playfully consider some personally loaded statements.

  10. #30
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    BlueWing, you're like the INTP Cheerleading Squad, Booster Club, and Marching Band all rolled into one.

    These positive qualities are based on the INTPs in my life.

    Bro
    - is the family peacekeeper
    I think you're projecting your own qualities onto him and this is one example thereof. Fe is the peace-keeping function, tends not to be prominent among INTPs

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    - good at finding solutions that keep everyone happy
    No doubt INTPs are good at impersonal problem solving, though making everyone happy is an Fe thing. Resolving interpersonal problems tends not to be a strength of thinkers.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    - very sympathetic (although somewhat brusque, but I need that every now and then)
    -very charming and funny
    - cares about how he is perceived by others; is very aware of his "image" (I think this is a positive)
    INTPs tend not to be imagine conscious.
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    -the best shopping partner ever! He'll tell me if my ass looks big in something and I know it's the truth
    - romantic with his girlfriend. I once saw him start singing (very badly) to his girlfriend and it was the cutest thing ever
    -cares about the world he lives in. Is very socially aware and has told me about stuff I never knew about

    Friend
    -introduced me to Battlestar Gallactica and House (just when I was about to throw my TV from the top of a building)
    -very easy to get along with and chill
    -sympathetic in her own way and it's very meaningful to me
    -smart as all get out
    -she puts up with me and all my drama in a way only my family does and that means a lot also
    -good listener
    Last edited by proteanmix; 10-01-2007 at 06:47 AM. Reason: fixed quotes
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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