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  1. #1
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    Default Provoker Takes Vacation from Ventrillo

    To whom it may concern,

    I've decided to leave vent for a while primarily because I've been finding the experience increasingly unrewarding. Perhaps my expectations for intellectual discussion and clarity, consistency, and elegance in diction are too high, but I find myself often disappointed with marginal exceptions. The F-dominants tend to derail controversial dicussions for sake of social harmony. The Ne-dominants tend to derail good discussions due to undisciplined extroverted intuition. Given that the majority of participants constitute ENTPs and F-types, the upshot is that these constant derailings feed a bastardization of potentially high quality discussions. Adding to the problem is the difference in mental frameworks people are operating in. I myself tune into ventrillo because I see it as a potential domain for intellectual discussions. Yet others merely use it as a social service to chit chat and satiate their bordom and nothing more. Furthermore, it has become evident that certain users are trying to become some sort of carbon copy of me, stealing my intellectual property and trying to pawn it off as their own without giving me due recognition. They fail to understand that only when they've all denied me do I return to them. Merely reiterating my ideas is tantamount to herd-behavior. It's nonsense! Fiddlesticks! And thus not what I stand for.

    The other reason for taking a vacation from vent is actually linked to my respect for certain users who have given back to me. It is for these people that I shall starve the beast for a while. Indeed, implicit in my logic is the assumption that if I starve myself socially, and go into metaphysical solitude in my cave, I will come back refreshed, filled with new ideas, models, and experiences to expound on and share. One must ask one's self how many people have we seen come on vent, given the users their best and brightest ideas only to be completely drained and intellectually bankrupt and depressed shortly after? At its lowest vitality there may be about 10 users on all bored to death and scavenging like animals searching for food in anything--any new person to come on with any new idea. I myself have strived to be a catelogue for theories, an infinite abyss for insights, and a surgeon with logic. But I want to leave while my stock is still high and I want to come back when it's higher.

    As mentioned, some members have given back to me and thus I will mention only briefly a few things that have stood out in the vent experience and pay them due respect. First of all, despite all test results, I don't think there are as many NTs on vent as people who claim to be. There are many Ns with high intuition that's not accompanied by strict logic and clear thinking. These intuitionists often have hearts well placed but are subject to momentary impressions and as a result find themselves in logical contradictions. On the other hand, there are also some users with sound logic but whose imagination is clearly in poverty. There aren't many with both a wealthy imagination and solid logic, intuition combined with grand thinking. In my books, SolitaryWalker has earned this category and is one of the few users that has given back to me intellectually.

    Second, I respect Jeffster as one of the few vent users who seems to be by and large true to himself. While many users strive to cherry pick a personality that they like at that particular moment, Jeffster has a base-personality that is consistent and particular only to himself. Jeffster is also able to laugh at himself, which makes him likeable and easy company.

    Third, I respect Thatgirl for her natural aptitude and interest in philosophical affairs. I'd say the hidden link between Thatgirl and I is in metaphysical solitude.

    In conclusion, I will be going on a vacation from ventrillo for a while. I will be injecting myself with Russian literature (Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Nabokov, Gogol, and so on). I will be writing lots of interesting things down and engaging in passionate creative contemplation in my solitude from time to time. I will be preparing a mental framework for my Master's program beginning in September. Once I get a new laptop and have systematized and militarized every dimension of my life to a strict regiment, I will consider descending from my side of the mountain and returning to vent.

  2. #2
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    You'll be missed. When there was actually a conversation happening it was very fun. I have the same issues with vent that you do, people derailing, Ne users, etc. I could always rely on you when you were in there to actually discuss something rather than fluff it up.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #3
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    Boo hoo.

  4. #4
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    Couldn't you have just said "fuck you" to them on Ventrillo instead? It's much more rewarding.
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
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    = Ne > Ni > Fi > Te > Se > Fe > Si INTP (I/PNT) 5w4

  5. #5
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    Why have you abandoned attempting to change the Ventrilo atmosphere? There is a section for "Super Serious Discussion." There is a possibility, however large or small, that this section could be reserved for the purposes of intellectually stimulating discussion instead of some random room with an arbitrary name like it has so become recently.

    One thing that I have noticed with Ventrilo is that it automatically disconnects whenever a line of text is over the character limit. Perhaps it is my client or perhaps it is the server settings. Should the latter case be true, this can prove to be a hindrance to intellectual discussion as entire ideas cannot expressed fully and completely in such a small amount of space. For this reason, I choose to save my "insights" for forums rather than Ventrilo. (and, of course, because Ventrilo is much faster paced and text can be lost in the blink of an eye.)

    In my eyes, the best way to create the environment Provoker has long tried to experience on Ventrilo is via a TypeC IRC server. Rather than the one chatroom setup (a very possibly negative feature of Vent) for the entire community, rooms can be created and devoted to certain topics. Users choosing not to stick to the topic of the room may be kicked(and possibly banned) by the ChanOPs.

    All of this being said, you will be missed, Provoker. Of course, I do encourage you to not fully "give up" on Ventrilo. I hope that one day your grievances will be attended to in a way that propels this community forward.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  6. #6
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    If intellectual discussion is something you want, I'd encourage you to outline a schedule or plan that covers what topics will be discussed and when. Open it up to the community, and announce the schedule to see if anyone would like to participate. I enjoy a good discussion as much as the next guy, and if others know something will be discussed beforehand, it could revitalize that aspect of the ventrilo community that has disappeared. Just a thought.



  7. #7
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    Why have you abandoned attempting to change the Ventrilo atmosphere? There is a section for "Super Serious Discussion." There is a possibility, however large or small, that this section could be reserved for the purposes of intellectually stimulating discussion instead of some random room with an arbitrary name like it has so become recently.
    I agree, and this might be fixable by making multiple text chats to go with each voice chat rather than a single one for the entire server. Do weigh in here if you have an opinion on this.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  8. #8
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    I'll miss you Provoker.

  9. #9
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    Second, I respect Jeffster as one of the few vent users who seems to be by and large true to himself. While many users strive to cherry pick a personality that they like at that particular moment, Jeffster has a base-personality that is consistent and particular only to himself. Jeffster is also able to laugh at himself, which makes him likeable and easy company.
    Thanks, man. I respect you too. And I still think you're the best on-point ranter we've had in Vent. The times when you really got going in voice were usually really fun.


    I will be injecting myself with Russian literature
    Damn, that sounds painful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    All of this being said, you will be missed, Provoker. Of course, I do encourage you to not fully "give up" on Ventrilo. I hope that one day your grievances will be attended to in a way that propels this community forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    If intellectual discussion is something you want, I'd encourage you to outline a schedule or plan that covers what topics will be discussed and when. Open it up to the community, and announce the schedule to see if anyone would like to participate. I enjoy a good discussion as much as the next guy, and if others know something will be discussed beforehand, it could revitalize that aspect of the ventrilo community that has disappeared. Just a thought.
    I agree with these suggestions. I think one reason I enjoyed hearing your perspective is, like you said, it's not well-represented in Vent, so it was always good to mix things up a bit. I've been the only ISFP who has regularly participated, so that's one reason I feel like I've brought a unique perspective to things too. I think it benefits almost any discussion to have a greater variety of people. Sure, discussions among the same type can be fun sometimes, but it's cool to get different takes on subjects and sort of see where the "battle lines" are drawn.

    So, anyway, I wish you well in whatever you do, good luck with your literature injections and regiments and stuff, and hopefully we can talk again in the not-too-distant future.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  10. #10
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    To whom it may concern,

    I've decided to leave vent for a while primarily because I've been finding the experience increasingly unrewarding. Perhaps my expectations for intellectual discussion and clarity, consistency, and elegance in diction are too high, but I find myself often disappointed with marginal exceptions. The F-dominants tend to derail controversial dicussions for sake of social harmony. The Ne-dominants tend to derail good discussions due to undisciplined extroverted intuition. Given that the majority of participants constitute ENTPs and F-types, the upshot is that these constant derailings feed a bastardization of potentially high quality discussions. Adding to the problem is the difference in mental frameworks people are operating in. I myself tune into ventrillo because I see it as a potential domain for intellectual discussions. Yet others merely use it as a social service to chit chat and satiate their bordom and nothing more. Furthermore, it has become evident that certain users are trying to become some sort of carbon copy of me, stealing my intellectual property and trying to pawn it off as their own without giving me due recognition. They fail to understand that only when they've all denied me do I return to them. Merely reiterating my ideas is tantamount to herd-behavior. It's nonsense! Fiddlesticks! And thus not what I stand for.

    [...]

    As mentioned, some members have given back to me and thus I will mention only briefly a few things that have stood out in the vent experience and pay them due respect. First of all, despite all test results, I don't think there are as many NTs on vent as people who claim to be. There are many Ns with high intuition that's not accompanied by strict logic and clear thinking. These intuitionists often have hearts well placed but are subject to momentary impressions and as a result find themselves in logical contradictions. On the other hand, there are also some users with sound logic but whose imagination is clearly in poverty. There aren't many with both a wealthy imagination and solid logic, intuition combined with grand thinking. In my books, SolitaryWalker has earned this category and is one of the few users that has given back to me intellectually.
    No offense, but it seems to me that you're trying to cultivate an intellectual discourse from the wrong starting material. MBTI is a theory that tends to attract NFs and NF-leaning NTs slightly more than extreme NTs, in my experience. Especially in a discussion format. It's my personal belief that Jung and Isabel Myers were NF types themselves.

    The reason you find so many NF and ST types that think of themselves as NT is because, ironically, independent-mindedness and creativity are overt cultural values in certain cultures and subcultures, and thus a person might very well idealize NTs and wish to rationalize that they're misunderstood because they're more intelligent and creative than everyone else. Lastly, out of actual NTs, there are probably several who simply don't enjoy using their N and T in as rigorous a fashion as yourself and SolitaryWalker. I believe you're at an extreme, focused end of the NT spectrum.

    Essentially, the people you're interacting with do not actually wish to engage in an intellectually intense discussion. That is your goal, and it isn't shared by the others, who simply want to interact on a much simpler mental level. It's somewhat unfair for you to demand that they contribute to a goal that only you and a few others have.

    So, it seems to me that what you should do, is gather up SolitaryWalker, and a few other philosophical types (perhaps from philosophy or high-level mathematical forums) that want to create the kind of environment you desire, and create a new Vent channel oriented towards that purpose. The current forum population, and Vent channel, is more general purpose and quite simply not suited to fulfilling the intellectual demands you're making on it.

    Basically, create something specifically geared towards your purposes, rather than attempting to appropriate something that wasn't designed for them in the first place.

    This forum does have quite a few intellectual personalities, but this is mostly spillover from INTPc. An accident, not representative of the direction the forum was intended to go in the first place. And the concentration is diluting as we gain more members, so you will only find less and less of what you seek here over time. I stay here mostly for social reasons. If I were seeking genuine intellectual stimulation, I would seek it elsewhere. I'd advise you to do the same... and hopefully, to return here for the human element eventually.

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