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[NT] Was Carl Jung an NT?

Jaguar

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"Since you want to know my opinion about astrology I can tell you that I've been interested in this particular activity of the human mind since more than 30 years.
As I am a psychologist, I am chiefly interested in the particular light the horoscope sheds on certain complications in the character.
In cases of difficult psychological diagnosis I usually get a horoscope in order to have a further point of view from an entirely different angle.
I must say that I very often found that the astrological data elucidated certain points which I otherwise would have been unable to understand.

From such experiences I formed the opinion that astrology is of particular interest to the psychologist,
since it contains a sort of psychological experience which we call 'projected' - this means that we find the psychological facts as it were in the constellations.

This originally gave rise to the idea that these factors derive from the stars, whereas they are merely in a relation of synchronicity with them.
I admit that this is a very curious fact which throws a peculiar light on the structure of the human mind."

--Carl Jung.


Comments anyone?
 

mhina

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YouTube - Carl Jung speaks about Death


YouTube - Quote: Carl Jung.. I know God exists

Here are some interesting clips of interviews with Carl Jung.

I wonder what he meant by, the psyche not adhering to the laws of time and space. and also how did he "know" that god exists?

I was sure he specifically mentioned that he did adhere to any particular faith and was undecided on the matter of god in his last published book "Man and his symbols".

I really did not see anything that screams F and J while reading his works. He approached emotions in a very clinical manner and was constantly trying to connect them with some larger theory of human behavior. He was always trying to consolidate his own private musings, observations during therapy and the work of Frued and his other peers into something coherent and he never seemed to outright dismiss an idea or conversely treat them as canon. The furthest he would get was something like "well I find freuds model of dream interpretation to be lacking because it did not attribute any meaning to the individual content of the patient's dream and we can't all be thinking of penises 24/7". That sounds INTPish to me >_>.

Sounds like something he'd believe in if he believed in collective consciousness.

Really the collective unconscious theory was not that radical or trippy. People seem to be under the impression that he was describing a giant pool of ancestral memories floating in the sky but in fact he just proposed that the fact that humans exhibit similar base myths/symbols across all geographies, ethnicities, and cultures suggest that there may be a universal compenent to them. It is a modest theory when you look at it that way.
 
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INTJ123

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I was sure he specifically mentioned that he did adhere to any particular faith and was undecided on the matter of god in his last published book "Man and his symbols".

I really did not see anything that screams F and J while reading his works. He approached emotions in a very clinical manner and was constantly trying to connect them with some larger theory of human behavior. He was constantly trying to consolidate his own private musings, observations during therapy and the work of Frued and his other peers into something coherent and he never seemed to outright dismiss an idea or conversely treat them as canon. The furthest he would get was something like "well I find freuds model of dream interpretation to be lacking because it did not attribute any meaning to the individual content of the patient's dream and we can't all be thinking of penises 24/7".

That seems pretty INTPish to me >_>


LOL? Well you know that's what I think about Freud too, he was just a coked up sex freak, having weird issues with his penis obviously, for some reason he was rubbing ointment on his penis regularly(STD's?)
 

simulatedworld

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The whole concept of typology is pure Ni. It's about questioning the assumptions you unconsciously make regarding your own value system and those of others, but it only changes the way you interpret actions. It's up to some judging function to decide how to respond externally, but studying typology teaches people to emulate Ni skills.

Personally, and I know this is clearly not true for all Ne users, but I have typology to thank largely for any Ni (real or synthetic) I may have at all today.
 

mhina

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The whole concept of typology is pure Ni. It's about questioning the assumptions you unconsciously make regarding your own value system and those of others, but it only changes the way you interpret actions. It's up to some judging function to decide how to respond externally, but studying typology teaches people to emulate Ni skills.

Personally, and I know this is clearly not true for all Ne users, but I have typology to thank largely for any Ni (real or synthetic) I may have at all today.

See I could argue that the theory arose from his observations of human behavior*Se), or connected all his theories into an abstract web that was "pruned" by a logical sorting method *Ne+Ti*. Or say he was just a good people person *Fe*.

I however do not see the merits of an argument suggesting that Ni is the only possible way to come to the conclusions he did :/.

Also some of your comments directly contradict type theory. You were not "missing" Ni...it was undeveloped. And synthetic functions? Do tell
 
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simulatedworld

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See I could argue that the theory arose from his observations of human behavior*Se), or connected all his theories into an abstract web that was "pruned" by a logical sorting method *Ne+Ti*. Or say he was just a good people person *Fe*.

I however do not see the merits of an argument suggesting that Ni is the only possible way to come to the conclusions he did :/.

Also some of your comments directly contradict type theory. You were not "missing" Ni...it was undeveloped. And synthetic functions? Do tell

Not necessarily. There's not exactly consensus on that. Some argue that any of the four functions other than dom/aux/tert/inf are never actually directly utilized, but just simulated through combinations of the other functions.
 

mhina

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Not necessarily. There's not exactly consensus on that. Some argue that any of the four functions other than dom/aux/tert/inf are never actually directly utilized, but just simulated through combinations of the other functions.

Can you give any examples of how this conjoining would work and lead to a simulated function. More importantly how is this mechanism more plausible then the age old base number of nuerons+training/competition+plasticity=differentiated neural growth mechanism that seems to be used in everything from reading to differeniating tones?
 

simulatedworld

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Sure, for instance, ENTJs often come across as ESTPs because they use Te+Ni to intentionally simulate Se+Ti in situations where they feel that the effects of appearing to use these functions would be strategically valuable.
 

The Decline

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I like the collective unconscious theories :(

Me too. I have a soft spot for those theories, as well as INFP "space cadets" :blush:

IMO he was certainly a INxx though.
 

mhina

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Sure, for instance, ENTJs often come across as ESTPs because they use Te+Ni to intentionally simulate Se+Ti in situations where they feel that the effects of appearing to use these functions would be strategically valuable.

so how can you be sure INTJs are just not using Se in these situations?
 

Snow Turtle

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Really the collective unconscious theory was not that radical or trippy. People seem to be under the impression that he was describing a giant pool of ancestral memories floating in the sky but in fact he just proposed that the fact that humans exhibit similar base myths/symbols across all geographies, ethnicities, and cultures suggest that there may be a universal compenent to them. It is a modest theory when you look at it that way.

Yep but his other theory is certainly trippy.

Onto whether Carl Jung was an INFJ or INTX. His profession and his spiritual background certainly makes it hard but... wikipedia quotes and such.

Jung emphasized the importance of balance and harmony. He cautioned that modern people rely too heavily on science and logic and would benefit from integrating spirituality and appreciation of unconscious realms.
An eccentric and depressed woman, Emilie Jung spent much of the time in her own separate bedroom, enthralled by the spirits that she said visited her at night. Jung had a better relationship with his father because he thought him to be predictable and thought his mother to be very problematic. Although during the day he also saw her as predictable, at night he felt some frightening influences from her room.
One night he saw a faintly luminous, indefinite figure, coming from her room. The head was detached from the neck and floated in the air, in front of the body.
Just had to comment on this but: What the heck xD
A solitary and introverted child, Jung was convinced from childhood that he had two personalities — a modern Swiss citizen and a personality more at home in the eighteenth century.[7] "Personality Number 1", as he termed it, was a typical schoolboy living in the era of the time, while "Personality Number 2" was a dignified, authoritative and influential man from the past.
So did Jung have multiple personality disorder, or was these personas that he liked to adopt for himself?
Jung had no plans to study psychiatry, because it was held in contempt those days. But as he started studying his psychiatric textbook, he became very excited when he read that psychoses are personality diseases. Immediately he understood this was the field that interested him the most. It combined both biological and spiritual facts and this was what he was searching for.
Well that answers the question regarding as to why he was interested in the field. Considering that he learnt about neurosis earlier on, along with his understanding of collective unconsciousness it'd motivate him towards that particular field.

Jung's work on himself and his patients convinced him that life has a spiritual purpose beyond material goals. Our main task, he believed, is to discover and fulfill our deep innate potential, much as the acorn contains the potential to become the oak, or the caterpillar to become the butterfly. Based on his study of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Gnosticism, Taoism, and other traditions, Jung perceived that this journey of transformation, which he called individuation, is at the mystical heart of all religions. It is a journey to meet the self and at the same time to meet the Divine. Unlike Sigmund Freud, Jung thought spiritual experience was essential to our well-being.
That's his later life after he visited India and became interested in Hindu philosophy.

Speaking of which does anyone know what type Frued might have been?

Although his first career choice was archeology
There we go. Truth revealed but why did he switch? It doesn't mention his motivations for doing so, nor does it say when he wanted to go into archeology.

*shrugs* That's all for now. Perhaps if I ever get around to reading a proper biography.
 

Llewellyn

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Ok, Freud is supposed to have been INFJ (not my source).

As to Jung, in this movie (great by the way, to have learned in this thread there are interviews with him on YouTube) he says he does not (can not) believe something for the sake of believing, but must have an hypothesis (a number of clues) to consider the possibility that something is true. This seems to me INTX. It's also the way I think, but I 'believe' I'm often a little more imaginative in my thinking than a lot of 'proud' NTs.
Or maybe he is INFP even. But not INFJ, he is too thoughtful for that.
 

Lauren Ashley

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As to Jung, in this movie (great by the way, to have learned in this thread there are interviews with him on YouTube) he says he does not (can not) believe something for the sake of believing, but must have an hypothesis (a number of clues) to consider the possibility that something is true. This seems to me INTX. It's also the way I think, but I 'believe' I'm often a little more imaginative in my thinking than a lot of 'proud' NTs.
Or maybe he is INFP even. But not INFJ, he is too thoughtful for that.

Does this mean I can't be INFJ anymore?

:boohoo:
 

Athenian200

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Ok, Freud is supposed to have been INFJ (not my source).

As to Jung, in this movie (great by the way, to have learned in this thread there are interviews with him on YouTube) he says he does not (can not) believe something for the sake of believing, but must have an hypothesis (a number of clues) to consider the possibility that something is true. This seems to me INTX. It's also the way I think, but I 'believe' I'm often a little more imaginative in my thinking than a lot of 'proud' NTs.
Or [I]maybe[/I] he is INFP even. But not INFJ, he is too thoughtful for that.

:huh:

You're actually implying that an INFP is more thoughtful than an INFJ?

And requiring clues supporting a hypothesis to believe in something, rather than just believing in it, is INTx now... huh.
 
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