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  1. #1
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Default What is N like without F?

    I've recently discovered that I can't picture it. No matter how I look at things, it seems as if desire or morality is always somewhere in relation to the picture. As a result, I've found myself unable to relate to NTs, because I can't seem to conceive of ideas that don't involve a personal element in most arenas, while this constant conception of impersonal ideas is their main experience of reality.

    The closest thing to the NT mindset that I can currently comprehend would be looking at things in terms of higher mathematics, engineering, computer programming, chemistry, astronomy, economics, or military strategy. I can't seem to look at any other kinds of abstractions without non-negligible amounts of F getting involved.

    Obviously, NTs think about more than those seven things on a regular basis, but I'm incapable of venturing outside those kinds of fields without beginning to perceive things in an F fashion. In other words, I find it difficult to imagine what it's like to perceive and respond to an abstraction I see as having a personal element, as if it involved no personal elements.

    So, my question is this... can you express or convey the experience of seeing and appreciating something like politics, religion, art, psychology, personal growth, mythology, or fantasy in an impersonal fashion? I can't seem to imagine it, it seems a little beyond me at this point.

  2. #2
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I've recently discovered that I can't picture it. No matter how I look at things, it seems as if desire or morality is always somewhere in relation to the picture. As a result, I've found myself unable to relate to NTs, because I can't seem to conceive of ideas that don't involve a personal element, while this constant conception of impersonal ideas is their main experience of reality.

    The closest thing to the NT mindset that I can currently comprehend would be looking at things in terms of higher mathematics, engineering, computer programming, chemistry, astronomy, economics, or military strategy. I can't seem to look at any other kinds of abstractions without non-negligible amounts of F getting involved.

    Obviously, NTs think about more than those seven things on a regular basis, but I'm incapable of venturing outside those kinds of fields without beginning to perceive things in an F fashion. In other words, I find it difficult to imagine what it's like to perceive and respond to an abstraction I see as having a personal element, as if it involved no personal elements.

    So, my question is this... can you express or convey the experience of seeing and appreciating something like politics, religion, art, psychology, personal growth, mythology, or fantasy in an impersonal fashion? I can't seem to imagine it, it seems a little beyond me at this point.




    Daniel Goleman on compassion | Video on TED.com

    I think your answer is at 7:35.


    goleman is the writer of "emotional intelligence" book




    It gives a certain perspective.

  3. #3
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I thnik such a thing like N without F doesnt exist and if you convey something you always do it subjective. But the difference between a NF and a NT would be, you at least would try to convey it objectively.

    And that you do with everything.

    It's like standing in front of BurgerKing and mcDonalds and tho you hate McDonalds, you thing about going there everytime you stand in front of it, cause maybe now they can have something better there.

    this image isnt quite fitting, but it describes the idea.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #4
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    it's funny because I can't imagine it with a personal component. Ideas are just ideas.

    I guess the main feeling is like watching something from the outside. Like mice in a maze - and then dropping different variables to see their reaction. This is how I view the human race. I guess you would even put personal meaning into that, right?

    But we all have T and F.

  5. #5
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    "Thinkers" feel about thought. "Feelers" feel about emotion. When I think of social issues it tends to be about peoples economic circumstances. "Feelers" seem more inclined to feel about family, relationships, love and community. N is about abstractions. S is about concrete things. N without F does not seem to make any sense.

  6. #6
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    But we all have T and F.
    And we can turn each of the functions off if we wanted to.

    Type can limit us or liberate us. Depends on how you look at it.


    I sometimes wonder if we study MBTI or preach MBTI...

  7. #7
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    And we can turn each of the functions off if we wanted to.

    Type can limit us or liberate us. Depends on how you look at it.
    I don't think I could turn off Ne or Ti if I tried. But you are correct about liberation and limitation.

  8. #8
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I don't think I could turn off Ne or Ti if I tried. But you are correct about liberation and limitation.
    I noticed that I turned off my Ti all the time. I just haven't noticed it. Of course I felt disingenuous or faking the moment, but fact remains, my Ti was turned off.

    These days, I'm aware of when I use my Ti. Not all the time, but I do sense it and then see if it's the best way to go about the situation.

    For instance. If someone comes to me in distress. My initial reaction is to analyze and present a solution. But that doesn't work. (and are usually feeling crappier) Instead I try to turn my analysis brain off, and the Ti goes with it. I'm left with Ne Si Fe and move along that way. And it seems to be working quiet well.

    An example of using Ne Si Fe is when I share a dream or paint a vision to share with the other person. And let them color my dream too. No analysis, no judgement, just playing.

    You know what I mean?

  9. #9
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    An example of using Ne Si Fe is when I share a dream or paint a vision to share with the other person. And let them color my dream too. No analysis, no judgement, just playing.

    You know what I mean?
    I totally know what you mean. But I can put my Ti aside (not turn it off) and try a different method, but I can't imagine what it would be like to turn Ne off. It seems like that's simply what thinking is. I can't imagine to think another way. I don't have to analyze every thought, I guess, but it would feel creepy and fake not to do so.

  10. #10
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    it's funny because I can't imagine it with a personal component. Ideas are just ideas.
    Well, certain nuances can't be conveyed impersonally, for me. But if the idea doesn't contain personal nuance, then it's just an idea.
    I guess the main feeling is like watching something from the outside. Like mice in a maze - and then dropping different variables to see their reaction. This is how I view the human race.

    I guess you would even put personal meaning into that, right?
    Well, I might. I'd see it as a person who values curiosity and enjoys observation. But I don't see that as overwhelmingly personal.

    I do know that perspective. It generally only happens for me, though, if I can dehumanize the people involved (including myself). Basically, I have to take them in my mind and set my mind up to represent them as numbers, programs, machines, or animals rather than people. THEN I can see things the way you described. But I wouldn't feel comfortable maintaining that perspective.

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