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[MBTI General] What is N like without F?

Mondo

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This proves to be a slightly flaw with the Meyers-Briggs typology.. both NFs and NTs are very comfortable with the abstract- which requires a deal of intuition to work through.

However, the Idealists are more comfortable with using intuition when making decisions while the Rationals will rely more on reason.

I find Intuition helps my thought process be more efficient- easily eliminating certain options which don't seem very viable.
I have a strong sense of intuition but I don't feel comfortable relying on it entirely when making decisions.
Logic is my best friend.
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
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He's being honest about what he felt and he wasn't suggesting that NTs hope people die so they can get a job.
 

Athenian200

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There is one thing that makes logically no sense. If you are unhappy with the way you see people, then you ask others about their way, but why then still justify how you see people. Then again, if you are happy with the way you see, people, then why ask others.

I didn't ask because I was unhappy with the way I see people. I'm content with it. I asked because I wanted to understand the way others see people. I wasn't justifying it, I was explaining it.

Ultimately this leads to one logical conclusion. You can ask now every person who thinks different all the way you want. But you wont understand them, cause you havent understood you yourself yet.

No offense, but that's a rather pointless thing to say. No one can really "understand themselves" completely. We're not capable of gaining or maintaining conscious awareness of every aspect of our own nature.

You've said similar things before, and I don't want to wait around and "experience" things before trying to understand them. I can do better than that. ;)


O...kay. I'm not going to touch this loaded series of assumptions with a 10-foot pole. :unsure:
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
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Tastes like strawberry.
 

entropie

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I didn't ask because I was unhappy with the way I see people. I'm content with it. I asked because I wanted to understand the way others see people. I wasn't justifying it, I was explaining it.

My basic problem is that I dont understand why anyone could be that arrogant to think that he ever can understand another person, cause he will be the same person forever and forever again.

I have a flaw at this point but I wont correct it, cause I am afraid to become insane.
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
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NTs believe more in social darwinism, and that morality is subjective.
NFs I don't know what they believe in, but they seem to have a strict sense of right and wrong and have more compassion than their T counterparts.

The best example of an NT who lacks faith in morality is machievelli, who said the ends justify the means.

As for having evil thoughts and wishing malice on other people, all human beings have those once in awhile, so you should not view yourself gulity for this.

Without NTs, the world would not have towering achievements like buildings,telecommunications , missiles, and all sorts of advance technology.
Without NFs, the world would be cold and ruthless, no one would care for other people other than themselves, and there would be no moral justice.

So the two balacne each other out.
 

Matthew_Z

That chalkboard guy
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Athenian, why do you choose to focus on N without F? How is this any different than visualizing S without F? (or any letter without F for that matter)
 

Athenian200

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Athenian, why do you choose to focus on N without F?

Specifically, it's because simulatedworld claimed he had a song that represented Ni. I disagreed, and presented songs that conveyed my own idea of Ni. He dismissed this as being the "NF version" of Ni, and I realized that if those things I saw as part of Ni are all NF qualities, then I don't understand NTs at all.


How is this any different than visualizing S without F? (or any letter without F for that matter)

Well... it isn't difficult to visualize on an abstract level. That's why I can estimate what fields of study embody the NT archetype. However, I can't understand how emotions fit into an NTs worldview, and I had previously thought I had some idea, but my interaction with simulatedworld made me feel like I had none. So I decided to recheck it.
 

wildcat

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This is not a criticism of the administration or the venerable mods.
If I were a mod, I should have had the post number 22 removed.
It is an offensive post, and a personal attack. It is inane and serves no constructive purpose whatsoever. Nobody should be forced to receive such posts.
A healthy environment is a safe environment where members are protected from assaults.

I do not know what is the mod policy here. This is not an attack on the mods.
They cannot see everything.

I only say what I'd have done, had I been a mod who happened to see the post.
Please do not be offended. :)
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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This is not a criticism of the administration or the venerable mods.
If I were a mod, I should have had the post number 22 removed.
It is an offensive post, and a personal attack. It is inane and serves no constructive purpose whatsoever. Nobody should be forced to receive such posts.
A healthy environment is a safe environment where members are protected from assaults.

I do not know what is the mod policy here. This is not an attack on the mods.
They cannot see everything.

I only say what I'd have done, had I been a mod who happened to see the post. Please do not be offended. :)

Sorry, it's Sunday night and sometimes there's no one around or no one to keep an eye on every thread just in case things get derailed.

We eventually did catch up with this one and are reviewing it to see what actions to take. Thanks for your concern.
 

professor goodstain

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Some off-topic posts moved here.

i think, when eck wrote "tastes like strawberry", eck was refering to the OP. i kinda think N without F would taste like strawberry in a way. Probably shouldn't have added ecks post to the 'off topic' thread:)
 

Totenkindly

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i think, when eck wrote "tastes like strawberry", eck was refering to the OP. i kinda think N without F would taste like strawberry in a way. Probably shouldn't have added ecks post to the 'off topic' thread:)

Oh very well. *poof, done*

(Always thought it tasted like kiwi-banana-mango myself, tho.)
 

entropie

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For N+F overkill we definitly need a dark fruit:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AkBC6wX-bw"].[/YOUTUBE]
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
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Have you tried tuning out Fe and just focus on using Ti to understand and direct Ni exploration? It wouldn't get you the same experience as an NT (since you're not Ni Te or Ti Ne) but it's close? I find that approach to work when trying to understand the NT perspective.

It's kind of like withholding judgment until later, this so call "turning off" Fe. The thoughts may run through your head, but you don't let it stop your current line of thoughts.

Athenian, I find that Ne dominant's understanding of Ni can be very off the mark. I agree with you that Forty six & 2 is not about Ni at all.
 

entropie

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Have you tried tuning out Fe and just focus on using Ti to understand and direct Ni exploration? It wouldn't get you the same experience as an NT (since you're not Ni Te or Ti Ne) but it's close? I find that approach to work when trying to understand the NT perspective.

It's kind of like withholding judgment until later, this so call "turning off" Fe. The thoughts may run through your head, but you don't let it stop your current line of thoughts.

Athenian, I find that Ne dominant's understanding of Ni can be very off the mark. I agree with you that Forty six & 2 is not about Ni at all.

As I always say to Aethian: the world becomes far more easier if i read your posts :)
 

Jeffster

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I've recently discovered that I can't picture it. No matter how I look at things, it seems as if desire or morality is always somewhere in relation to the picture. As a result, I've found myself unable to relate to NTs, because I can't seem to conceive of ideas that don't involve a personal element in most arenas, while this constant conception of impersonal ideas is their main experience of reality.

That's funny, because I still think you ARE an NT. ;)
 

Athenian200

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Have you tried tuning out Fe and just focus on using Ti to understand and direct Ni exploration? It wouldn't get you the same experience as an NT (since you're not Ni Te or Ti Ne) but it's close? I find that approach to work when trying to understand the NT perspective.

It's kind of like withholding judgment until later, this so call "turning off" Fe. The thoughts may run through your head, but you don't let it stop your current line of thoughts.

Actually, that's how I think most of the time, which is why I thought I had an idea of the NT perspective. But then I kind of worried... well, what if I don't really have an idea of it, because an NTs Feeling is more tied up with inferior or tertiary Sensing, and thus they experience emotions in a completely different way than NFs do? Or what if my Thinking works very differently than theirs because it's more tied to Sensing rather than any form of Intuition?

So basically, I guess was trying to figure out if NTs have feelings about ideas and abstractions like NFs do, or whether their feelings are limited to underdeveloped versions of SF-style feelings and values (even though I wouldn't have considered this before).

It was mostly prompted by simulatedworld, I guess... because he implied that NTs don't think about guilt, and since he sees being bothered by crime having positive results as lamenting an amoral world, he even made me question whether they even value justice, security, and consistency (which I know is ridiculous, but it crossed my mind for a moment).
Athenian, I find that Ne dominant's understanding of Ni can be very off the mark. I agree with you that Forty six & 2 is not about Ni at all.

Ah, this is reassuring. He really did make me afraid that NTs experience Ni THAT differently

Here's what I wrote on INTJf when I went there to ask how they'd describe impersonal Ni:

"My impression was that it just sounds like a lot of cathartic, pseudo-intellectual nonsense that glorifies idealizing and striving for the sake of the object rather than the idea... in other words, Ne in a different form with Ti or Fi mixed in. It just seems to glorify purposeless expansion and striving, and it truly annoys me to have this associated with Ni."

It's funny. When I talk to INTJs, or some INTPs, I'm left with the impression that NTs are awesome, interesting, likable, and easy to relate to... just a little oblivious to their own and/or other people's feelings. But when I talk to some ENTx types, or a very particular kind of crude INTx, I think their motivations are totally alien and scary (though some ENTPs give me the same impression as an INTx).

That's funny, because I still think you ARE an NT. ;)

Nope, I'm just an Introverted N. :) We tend to look a little bit like NTs on the surface, but we're totally different. A lot of people think that, though. My Fe doesn't come through well online.
 

JocktheMotie

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I think it was Nocap who recently discussed that N requires judging function support to operate correctly, and as far as I can tell it doesn't seem to be outside the realm of possibility. Because of this, I think your judging function can [and does] affect what your N is "attracted to" to some degree. While I may "see" the human elements in things and connections, they're often not considered as much in comparison to other elements that my mind prizes.
 

durentu

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Yes, yes but when I force myself to smile, I'm doing it consciously, because I think it will work. I use Ne to think of options and Ti to make the decision to force myself to smile to put myself in a good mood. The mind always leads the body - at least for me.

An interesting thought.

If the mind leads the body, does the mind decide to feel pain?
 
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