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Thread: Rant on ENTJs

  1. #51
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Razor View Post
    With a partner I'd rather like that we share a mutual event but everyone pays his part himself, so there is no ambiguous bullshit between us.
    Doesn't it occur to you though, that there might actually be in the world some good people who just like to do things for/give things to other people, and don't expect, want or need anything tangible back in return?

    Some people are just generous by nature - I know I'm very much so, and it can be very upsetting for me when I know someone who rejects everything I try to do for them, when I can tell it's because they're afraid of being obligated to me. In a way it's like a kick in the guts - it's like saying that even after we've known each other long enough for them to surely know that I'm just generous by nature, and that I'm not the kind of person who goes around calling in favours or counting debts and stuff, that they still treat me as though I'm some asshole who only does things for what's in it for them. Quite insulting really.

    If you've ever experienced pleasure of giving to someone, perhaps a birthday gift or something like that, and experienced how happy it can make you to see them just enjoying the gift and the smile on their face, then you must know that in not allowing other people to feel this, you're actually being quite selfish.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  2. #52
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I only get upset over lack of time expended with me, not over money. I'm a male so I try to pay everything for my girlfriend, but being a college student I go through intervals of time in which I don't have a lot of money, in which case I let her pay. Substitute is right anyway, trying to "keep the score" only leads to disaster.

    For the "incredibly upset" part I can get this to, I know if I was looking forward to an evening with friends and they call me and tell me they cant come, then I can become very angry to the point of throwing things and shouting (alone), though that has mellowed quite a bit, it was a lot worse when I was teenager. Also sometimes when an evening does not go as I expected I can become kind of silently upset and moody, though that mostly happens when I am bored with the people around me.
    Yeah, that's exactly what I do.

  3. #53
    Senior Member creativeRhino's Avatar
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    Oh, topic is soooooo good. I was married to an ENTJ for 9 lovely and “exciting” years. We didn’t break up, he ended up broken by a brain tumour.

    FDG - taking charge of a situation when there is clearly a more competent person available for the task at hand.

    Yes – and they would have to be an INTJ. At least pay attention to their careful debugging of your strategy.

    Metamorphosis - more concerned with objectives than friends

    Yes – but “if they had brains they’d see the logic and join me”

    Mycroft - ENTJs tend to actually come right out and say all of the brash or downright rude things we INTJs think but keep to ourselves. Needless to say, I love that about them.

    Yes, yes, and yes again. Every once and a while I do let it out and it IS GOOD.

    Blackwater - overly focused on the 'outside' of things. sees everything in the world as tetris blocks for them to twist and turn until they fit.

    Yes – no matter how much squealing can be heard, “Do I care? But where did I put the gag???”

    JivinJeffJones - My only real problem with ENTJs is that relentless desire to lead everything. If they could just chill with that (in a social setting, at least) I wouldn't have a problem with them. In fact, if they could just chill period it would help a lot.

    Yes (& how to compound a chill-pill) take one of their pet ideas and question one key aspect. Keeps them quiet for ages, but darn it, they put an INTJ on to the debugging

    Jennifer - Just because you can DO something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, needs to actually be done, or is the best use of everyone's time and energy.

    Yes, the blindspot! It can be big and beautiful – like a black hole…..

    Erm - -Act like they are superior beings, although they probably don't think they are, it still makes them alot of enemies.

    Yes, and they love it. It kind of serves to validate them. (hint, don’t make opposition too explicit!)

    Runvardh - Spending other people's money for their own agenda and seeing no problem with it.

    Yes – his line at work was “give me the expense account number and it will join up with and my plan. It will be done yesterday. No account? How long can you hold your breath????”

    Substitute - I quickly find myself going all soft and smiling at how their doing these things is just one reason why I love them them so much. They're the only ones usually, who can get real results out of me, on a personal level - when I can't get them out of myself.

    Yes – I am transformed in the most wicked ways….

    Mendacity - If they thought an event (like a birthday or an anniversary) should happen a certain way (he shows up with roses, they have a candle light dinner etc etc), and then it failed to happen as they imagined because they never made their expectations clear, they will get incredibly upset and yell and scream or lock themselves in a bathroom and cry. This has always bothered me.
    Also, they seem to view most relationships as power struggles.

    Oh yes, yes and yes. He had an ex who had disappointed him. Being an INTJ and a systems/business analyst at the time I had an eye for detail and checked and rechecked. He needed a reality check on his expectations.

    Sahara

    Yes they are in a delightfully masochistic way a real delight to relate to. With careful strategy we can harness them to our plans….. But it is a bit like herding cats….


    Dark Razor - With a partner I'd rather like that we share a mutual event but everyone pays his part himself, so there is no ambiguous bullshit between us.

    That is what probably made it a workable and delightful relationship. We had a clear idea of what and how much weight we should pull.

    And now you make me PIMPL because –

    Related to that: Dont say out loud EVERYTHING you are thinking, it hurts.

    My late and lamented ENTJ’s favourite reprimand to himself (and me) was “Don’t put your brain on loud-speaker”.

    And finally substitute’s response re generosity.

    I earned a lot more than my ENTJ. I was “frugal”, he bordered on the “stingy” and his first present to me was a diver’s watch (that I still wear) that cost him more than one months salary. No strings, just unconditional love. He knew what I really needed and just went out an acted on it. Absolutely the best gift I have ever ever received.

    Ahhhh. ENTJs…..a delightful challenge for any NT harness and enjoy – in my somewhat biased perception. My sentiment is showing …

  4. #54
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    I relate to what Dark Razor says. When I'm bored or can't be bothered with the people I'm with, I try to go to "laid back neutral observer" mode. Basically, I'm thinking:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick's mind
    look guys it's not that I would like you to feel bad about it, but I'm fucking bored, so if you could just ignore me and let me in my own thoughts, I'd be happy. I want this to over and done with as quickly as possible without anyone getting pissed... so you just continue talking and please, please, pretend I don't exist. So I can relax in the peace of my own mind and find ideas to entertain myself because I am just overwhelmed by the boredom I feel being around you
    The problem is, they always seem to find out, and they always bug me to come out of my shell and they say things like "Hey! Mav! You're tired today? Are you bored? What's happening? We haven't heard you yet? Something's wrong?!". To which I eventually reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick
    YES DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT THE FUCKING REAL ESTATE, WEATHER, HOW THE NEPHEW OF YOUR NEIGHBOR'S AUNT INGRATIATED HIMSELF SMOKING POT (AND BTW I THINK SMOKING POT IS AWESOME), HOW MANY TIMES YOUR BABY HAD TO CRAP TODAY, THE COLOR OF YOUR DREADFUL CURTAINS I ONLY DREAM OF BURNING EACH TIME I SEE THEM AND HOW SWEETY THE DOOH DAH DOG GOT FUCKED BY THAT BASTARD. CAN WE ACTUALLY HAVE A BLOODY CONVERSATION HERE OR WHAT???

  5. #55
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Rant versus ENTJs?
    Okay. One thing.

    Stop being such a wimp! You correct others and remain uncorrected (in the worst cases), you tell others to buck up and yet practically burst into tears over the hangups about letting people in! They ARE in. Learn to celebrate that and you'll grow up.

    Oh and Ps are definitely superior. We may not get there on time or neatly or with any realisation of how we affect you but unlike yourself it didn't stress us out until you started raving and foaming at the mouth Chill and be a manager not a drill sergeant. People will love you for it and it works better.



    Okay that was two points.... see point two
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    You correct others and remain uncorrected
    Correction: That's not exactly true. Sometimes we are corrected, but that usually is by another ENTJ.

    Oh and Ps are definitely superior. We may not get there on time or neatly or with any realisation of how we affect you but unlike yourself it didn't stress us out until you started raving and foaming at the mouth Chill and be a manager not a drill sergeant. People will love you for it and it works better.
    P's are definitely superior at making such ridiculous statements. In all other areas, J's dominate those lazy, slacking, deserve-a-kick-in-the-butt P's. One does not need any knowledge of evolutionary psychology to know that J's are part of an evolved subset of the human species, one that is able to show self-control, planning and decisiveness. In fact, J's are so unbelievably awesome we should plan programs to transform all those evil P's to good J's. They would have to be on time all the time or else they would get severely punished and reprimanded and this conditionning would force them to become organized. They would have to make schedules and plan for at least the next 2 weeks. It would be torture and the good J's would triumph over the chaos instilling, vice affirming and unpredictably unpredictable P's.

    Oh wait, this kind of hell on earth already exists... It's called *work*.

    About being a drill sergeant... Maybe you can start to give us lessons when YOU end up as far in the hierarchy as we do. Now go do that schedule and fit in all the things you have to do, you lazy sob! Get moving! Go! Go! Go!

  7. #57
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Correction: That's not exactly true. Sometimes we are corrected, but that usually is by another ENTJ.
    But how are you corrected by those same standards which correct others or are you exempt from most of your own rules?

    That's the thing to which I refer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    P's are definitely superior at making such ridiculous statements. In all other areas, J's dominate those lazy, slacking, deserve-a-kick-in-the-butt P's. One does not need any knowledge of evolutionary psychology to know that J's are part of an evolved subset of the human species, one that is able to show self-control, planning and decisiveness. In fact, J's are so unbelievably awesome we should plan programs to transform all those evil P's to good J's. They would have to be on time all the time or else they would get severely punished and reprimanded and this conditionning would force them to become organized. They would have to make schedules and plan for at least the next 2 weeks. It would be torture and the good J's would triumph over the chaos instilling, vice affirming and unpredictably unpredictable P's.

    Oh wait, this kind of hell on earth already exists... It's called *work*.
    Exactly. We are superior because we have no point..specifically...yeah..err...
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    About being a drill sergeant... Maybe you can start to give us lessons when YOU end up as far in the hierarchy as we do. Now go do that schedule and fit in all the things you have to do, you lazy sob! Get moving! Go! Go! Go!
    I'm the one who stands at your shoulder and points to the large rock in the way of your train and then allows you the space to change course without looking like you were corrected

    I am ENTJ bane. Just ask my father
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #58
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    .... J's are part of an evolved subset of the human species, one that is able to show self-control, planning and decisiveness.
    I have self-control and decisiveness in bucketloads when it's worth it - just because I don't obsessively apply it when there's no point, thereby making of myself a stress-monger that brings stress and pressure (and resignation notices) wherever they go, doesn't mean I'm a workshy loser. If I act, it's because I decide it's time to, and because I have a good reason to - not just because I can't live with my ego if I don't.

    Oh wait, this kind of hell on earth already exists... It's called *work*.
    Ah yes... work. That thing that P's have to do like crazy, headless chickens one might say, to save everyone's ass after everything got messed up by the J making decisions too hastily and not waiting or watching for the right time to act, but just compulsively acting because they don't know how to watch and wait.

    About being a drill sergeant... Maybe you can start to give us lessons when YOU end up as far in the hierarchy as we do.
    Truth is, ENTJ's wouldn't get anywhere without ENTP's. They'd give up the first time their pitifully ill-thought-out plans hit a hurdle and they have an aneurysm from the stress of it before turning to drink and total inertia out of the self-disgust brought on by 'failure'. Face it, you need us to keep your heart-rate down, point out other (better) options and allow you to have the illusion of being successful as it's so important to your pompous li'l ego

    And I speak from very long, very deep experience!!! (granted, not of you personally, but of more ENTJ's than you can shake a stick at in a long and varied - not to mention immensely successful career, where I've always been their boss!)

    *surveys the scene below him, where the punctual, OCD-riddled J's he's employed all throughout the years have obligingly worked their conscientious guts out to make him a fortune, while he sits, effortlessly pulling the strings*

    Don't get me wrong mind you, I still adore ENTJ's like no other type

    Except maybe ISTP's...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  9. #59
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I knew a man who is an ENTJ. He retired from the military after 20 years.
    I liked him because he was bold and courageous, but he did have somewhat poor people skills.
    One day he asked us for input and I suggested that he read "How To Win Friends and Influence People".

    My impression of ENTJs in general is that their theme song should be:
    "I'm a steamroller baby, an' I'm gonna roll all over you."

    He had a really neat way of keeping track of his "Things to do" which I copied from him and still use.
    He writes one job on one sticky note.
    When that job's done, you throw away the note.
    I love that because I was forever making a list and losing it in a pile.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    This thread is rants on ENTJs, not why we love them!

    Oh btw, I never met a female ENTJ. I am dying to meet one to see if there are gender differences? Do you know any males ENTJs to compare your friend against? Incidentally, is she a good creative writer or expository writer?

    I would think ENTJ is probably the most masculine of all the types and societal expectations of women must have some interesting affect on her.
    She does both types of writing...and everyone that reads it feels the same way I do. She has a way of writing that makes you understand almost anything/and gives a visual.

    She stuggles with her feminity. And can be rough around the edges...though in a hilarious manner.
    She is very awkward in trying out her feminity...with clothing, jewlery etc.
    Which suprises me, because she has perfect girly hair and makeup.

    She actually is very sensitive in very girly way...although only in private.

    Oh yeah, she has no fear which scares the hell out me, especially when we were younger.

    I do not know know any ENTJ men that I am aware of.

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