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Thread: Rant on ENTJs

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    I can't speak about people in general with the disorder, and I'm not even sure the ENTJs I actually know even have that disorder, but a few phrases in that disorder describe their regular actions pretty well (not just under stress).

    So I'm not saying that all people with that disorder are necessarily ENTJs, it's merely conjecture on my part (though I suspect most are).

    I've seen and met lots of people stressed out and I can't imagine an INFP or ISTJ acting like what I described in a consistent fashion, but again - I'm just theorizing.
    The fact that a few phrases describe their regular actions does not mean that the rest does. In fact, in taking any random personality description, there is a high probability that one will find traits that confirm whatever personality we're trying to identify, ours or another (i.e. confirmation bias).

    So if not all people with that disorder are ENTJ, why is it used as an example for ENTJ behavior?

    I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just saying that there's no way to know and that there are equally valid alternative explanations that wait to be tested before we can decide for sure. The shadow theory is one of those explanations proposed for personalities under stress. For example, it predicts that (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/myers-briggs/isfp.htm):

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENTJ. Example characteristics are:

    being very critical and finding fault with almost everything
    becoming bossy and ignoring others' feelings
    having a very pessimistic view of the future
    see hidden meanings that are not really there
    Now, I bet that this ISFP under stress exhibiting these symptoms would be seen as actually a very bad ENTJ. And there are reasons to think that many people in their professional life are *consistently* under stress and could be showing this behavior in a very regular way, even though it is not the "true" them.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlAmerica View Post
    She can curse worse than any truckdriver.
    Uses the most shocking and dramatic language I have ever encountered.
    Is unrealistic about the perfection of level of cleanliness of her home.
    Struggles with how to dress 'girly'.
    Is highly demanding of those around her.

    Has an awesome sense of humor.
    Strives to do what is right no matter what.
    Speaks my language.
    Has an incredible gift of writing.

    My best friend since we were 5 in kindergarten.
    I couldnt live without her if I tried.
    This thread is rants on ENTJs, not why we love them!

    Oh btw, I never met a female ENTJ. I am dying to meet one to see if there are gender differences? Do you know any males ENTJs to compare your friend against? Incidentally, is she a good creative writer or expository writer?

    I would think ENTJ is probably the most masculine of all the types and societal expectations of women must have some interesting affect on her.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    The fact that a few phrases describe their regular actions does not mean that the rest does. In fact, in taking any random personality description, there is a high probability that one will find traits that confirm whatever personality we're trying to identify, ours or another (i.e. confirmation bias).

    So if not all people with that disorder are ENTJ, why is it used as an example for ENTJ behavior?
    I'm just saying it's true in my observations of the one's I've personally met. I don't care about the source of the excerpt. I just like the way it was worded for my purposes. Don't put to much emphasis on the where I got the quote (I didn't mean it to be relevant)


    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Now, I bet that this ISFP under stress exhibiting these symptoms would be seen as actually a very bad ENTJ. And there are reasons to think that many people in their professional life are *consistently* under stress and could be showing this behavior in a very regular way, even though it is not the "true" them.
    Interesting idea, but I'm not sure if one can be stressed ALL the time. You would eventually get desensitized to the stress, I would think.

    I'm not exactly sold on the shadow self stuff (in some cases). I've never acted like an ISFJ ever (even stressed). I can't imagine an ISFP acting like an ENTJ even when stressed. Would be interested to see if other folks here have had observations of this occurring. I'm not saying the shadow self stuff is necessarily wrong. I'm just not sold on it yet. Even assuming an ISFP exhibits shadow self behavior occasionally, I can't ever imagine confusing one for an ENTJ or someone afflicted with NPA disorder.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    I'm just saying it's true in my observations of the one's I've personally met. I don't care about the source of the excerpt. I just like the way it was worded for my purposes. Don't put to much emphasis on the where I got the quote (I didn't mean it to be relevant)
    I'm not saying it's not true, just that there are alternative explanations that need to be considered. Otherwise, there is a risk of finding facts to confirm a pre-existing belief/theory. There is no way of knowing if your typing was accurate, or if your observations are not affected by a preconception you may have about ENTJ's.

    Interesting idea, but I'm not sure if one can be stressed ALL the time. You would eventually get desensitized to the stress, I would think.

    I'm not exactly sold on the shadow self stuff (in some cases). I've never acted like an ISFJ ever (even stressed). I can't imagine an ISFP acting like an ENTJ even when stressed. Would be interested to see if other folks here have had observations of this occurring. I'm not saying the shadow self stuff is necessarily wrong. I'm just not sold on it yet. Even assuming an ISFP exhibits shadow self behavior occasionally, I can't ever imagine confusing one for an ENTJ.
    Well suppose these types were stressed in situations where they were the most visible, such as in presentations or when giving orders to their subordinates.

    I don't know about the validity of the shadow theory. In terms of anecdotal evidence, I do find I function like a negative ISFP under stress.

    Even if this theory isn't true, the fact is that there should be differences in behavior between ENTJ's and ENTJ's that have a personality disorder. The latter are not meant to be described by usual MBTI descriptions. Their behavior should not be generalized to other ENTJ's.

  5. #35
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    Associating specific personality disorders such as type-A or NPD to the ENTJ type leads to typing all the ENTJs that do not display such behavior as ENTPs.

  6. #36
    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
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    The presumption that just because they think something's a great idea, the rest of us will just fall into line and follow along.

  7. #37
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    I have two female ENTJ friends and my mother is also an ENTJ. I think that one of the most striking similarities between all three is something that came out the strongest in romantic relationships. If they thought an event (like a birthday or an anniversary) should happen a certain way (he shows up with roses, they have a candle light dinner etc etc), and then it failed to happen as they imagined because they never made their expectations clear, they will get incredibly upset and yell and scream or lock themselves in a bathroom and cry. This has always bothered me.
    Also, they seem to view most relationships as power struggles.
    However. I love my ENTJs and in most respects I have a great deal of respect for them. All three are some of the most intelligent and most ethical people that I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    Oh btw, I never met a female ENTJ. I am dying to meet one to see if there are gender differences? Do you know any males ENTJs to compare your friend against? Incidentally, is she a good creative writer or expository writer?

    I would think ENTJ is probably the most masculine of all the types and societal expectations of women must have some interesting affect on her.
    I've never met a male ENTJ in rl, but your initial description sounds pretty typical of the females I know too. However, they tend to be less violent I think than what you described. They do have this attitude of, "What's wrong with you!?" and tend to get unaccountably upset if people don't live up to their expectations.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    I haven't met an ENTJ in real life yet, but when I do lol
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    I would think ENTJ is probably the most masculine of all the types and societal expectations of women must have some interesting affect on her.
    Imagine ENTJs who got shit for being who they are all throughout their formative years and you can probably form a reasonably accurate mental image of what female ENTJs can be like.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  10. #40
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    I have two female ENTJ friends and my mother is also an ENTJ. I think that one of the most striking similarities between all three is something that came out the strongest in romantic relationships. If they thought an event (like a birthday or an anniversary) should happen a certain way (he shows up with roses, they have a candle light dinner etc etc), and then it failed to happen as they imagined because they never made their expectations clear, they will get incredibly upset and yell and scream or lock themselves in a bathroom and cry. This has always bothered me.
    I'm a male, but the "incredibly upset" part applies to me too. I think it's completely reasonable to have unspoken expectations in regard to this kind of basic stuff. Actually, in regard to most stuff. I don't think that voicing expectations is good because you impose things on another person. On the other hand, I'll still have those expectations, and so I'll get angry if they aren't being met.

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