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Thread: Rant on INTPs

  1. #61
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Still, analysis would make it abundantly clear that it is time to act. So he is not analysing (or he is severly confused).

    Clinical desicion making is an easy habit to pick up. Make a decision first then analyse, then pick again.... If at anytime you have to act, act on the last decision made. At least that's how I do it.
    It may be easy (I think it is reasonably so) but a lot of INTPs seem to have trouble with it. I don't really care, you know, as long as I don't go crashing over the waterfall or stay sitting on the railroad tracks when the train comes.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #62
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Still, analysis would make it abundantly clear that it is time to act. So he is not analysing (or he is severly confused).

    Clinical desicion making is an easy habit to pick up. Make a decision first then analyse, then pick again.... If at anytime you have to act, act on the last decision made. At least that's how I do it.
    Yes, the Ti is always making decisions internally whilst Ne is collecting information. With the ENTPs the voice of Ti is less influential, so there is less of a struggle between the need to collect all information and need to be making decisions which leads to a very strange case of external indecisiveness.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    procrastination to refer to tasks that we are obligated to do. Ps tend to be more concerned with doing tasks that they want to do first and foremost, and because of such an intense focus on that, the obligatory tasks tend to be postponed.
    Obligations are such nuicances. Do any types not avoid or postpone obligatory tasks? My favorite method of avoidance is automation. Hooray for automation I want all my obligations to be automatically met, with no effort or attention from me.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Obligations are such nuicances. Do any types not avoid or postpone obligatory tasks? My favorite method of avoidance is automation. Hooray for automation I want all my obligations to be automatically met, with no effort or attention from me.
    That sounds a little like -- okay, a lot like -- heaven.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #65
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Obligations are such nuicances. Do any types not avoid or postpone obligatory tasks? My favorite method of avoidance is automation. Hooray for automation I want all my obligations to be automatically met, with no effort or attention from me.
    I'd argue that EJs (the stronger the extroverted Judgment, the more distinctly expressed the tendency will be), will be less likely to avoid obligations than Ps.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    It may be easy (I think it is reasonably so) but a lot of INTPs seem to have trouble with it. I don't really care, you know, as long as I don't go crashing over the waterfall or stay sitting on the railroad tracks when the train comes.
    I am curious, are the waterfall and railroad tracks hyperbolic metaphors or do they accurately potray your situation. If it is the latter, I would have you husband checked out for depression. When things got that bad, it wasn't due to poor decision making on my part, I simply had not motivation or energy to do anything. (There was no analysis going on then either.)

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #67
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I am curious, are the waterfall and railroad tracks hyperbolic metaphors or do they accurately potray your situation. If it is the latter, I would have you husband checked out for depression. When things got that bad, it wasn't due to poor decision making on my part, I simply had not motivation or energy to do anything. (There was no analysis going on then either.)
    They have been pretty accurate portrayals in the past a couple of times. As I said, these are past situations. I'm sure depression was a factor, but that appears to be something not uncommon to INTPs. It didn't appear as if the analysis stopped, but that, in this situation, it was failing him. I don't know.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #68
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    They have been pretty accurate portrayals in the past a couple of times. As I said, these are past situations. I'm sure depression was a factor, but that appears to be something not uncommon to INTPs. It didn't appear as if the analysis stopped, but that, in this situation, it was failing him. I don't know.
    Just to clarify this statement from the perspective of typology. In depression, our auxiliary function gets shut off, but our primary function will likely remain sound. Hence, the INTPs' analysis will fail not because Ti is malfunctioning, but because we dont have the Ne to collect sufficient information for analysis.

    The INTP will have difficulty getting out of depression because, again the Ne, will not be available to the extent that is necessary in order to collect the information needed in order to avoid the turmoil the INTP is afflicted by.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Just to clarify this statement from the perspective of typology. In depression, our auxiliary function gets shut off, but our primary function will likely remain sound. Hence, the INTPs' analysis will fail not because Ti is malfunctioning, but because we dont have the Ne to collect sufficient information for analysis.
    That would make sense.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    They have been pretty accurate portrayals in the past a couple of times. As I said, these are past situations. I'm sure depression was a factor, but that appears to be something not uncommon to INTPs. It didn't appear as if the analysis stopped, but that, in this situation, it was failing him. I don't know.
    You are right. I should use different wording to clarify. In my case, the problem wasn't that analysis was failing, per say, the problem was I wasn't puting effort into it (and so my analysis failed).

    This may be complicated to explain. It is simply impossible for me to stop analyzing. So in my case the analysis didn't stop when I was depressed (or when I procratinate due to fear). The problem was that I stopped directing my analysis. I stoped putting effort into it and simply went into automatic. There wasn't any effortful analysis anymore. Automatic analysis served me surprizingly well during my depression, but at it did "fail" far more often. I think of the "effort" as informing my analytical process (maily through observations and experiments) .

    So, even though there was analysis going on (in the new way I'm using the word in this thread). There was no "analysis" going on (in the other sense).

    Perhaps drawing from the enneagram :rolli: will help explain. It is the Type 5 dynamic. Fear of being Overwhelmed->Retreating->Being Overwhelmed->Fear of being overwhelmed
    vs. Observe, Analyze experiment->Understand the world better->Desire to Understand the World better->Observe, Analyze, experiment....

    The distraction case is still part of the healthy cycle, but needs fine tuning, while fear based delay needs encouragement to observe, analyse, experiment, not discouragement.

    I hope that made sense.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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