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Thread: Rant on INTPs

  1. #191
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyDeath View Post
    Blackmail, I wasn't mad, just annoyed that instead of continuing a discussion, you chose passive aggressive tactics, and I wasn't laughing, you posted the " " thing in response.
    Again, you are completely wrong. I wasn't "passive-aggressive" at all, but you were, somehow.
    I did not "attack" you, I don't even know you, so why should I?

    I just told you what I thought, but the response you made was out of proportion, so I suggested you to relax, to calm down.

    I'm not following your attacks on me, at what point did I use a "ego defense mechanism" and state that INTPs are the best blah blah blah, etc?
    1) You stubbornly refused to consider the tiny possibility you may be wrong, that something in your own reasoning may be flawed.

    2) You considered this tiny possibility as a personal attack.

    3) You refused to discuss it.

    4) And while it's true you did not state that "INTPs are the best... blah blah blah", it was Tallulah's primary reaction.

    ---

    Your retaliations and aggressivity are disproportionate.

    Again, here is my point. Somebody asks you if you like dogs. Saying just "No", is a blunt negative statement, and should be interpreted as such.
    Again, you used another flawed example:

    "Could me saying "I don't dislike dogs" mean the same as I love dogs?"

    Are you aware you were using the classic form of a Litotes? Do you know what this is? So here, the answer is YES: "I don't dislike dogs"="I love dogs".
    That's a figure of speech, that's verbal nuances, that's everyday life conversations.

    You're free to invent your own language, your own definitions, to justify (even "logically") your own sense of subjectivity. But don't complain if later, you're not very well understood.
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  2. #192
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    ENTPs like to argue. it's true. but NO damn ENTP gives a shit about any argument, especially one this stupid for this long.
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  3. #193
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    ENTPs like to argue. it's true. but NO damn ENTP gives a shit about any argument, especially one this stupid for this long.
    di, you're back.

    I'm glad.

  4. #194
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    Rants on ENTPS:
    - Often feigns stupidity/confusion just to stir things up, when the answers are already clear.
    - Can't just stick firm with a position.
    - Likes dogs.
    oh- damn- that actually describes ME

    On INTPs- they're so damned quiet that I feel like I have to keep talking around them to make sure that neither of us are bored

    oh- and they're good at insulting people!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #195
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    dislike = a feeling of aversion or disapproval

    Re bolded... there's a filtering value system going on there and that could be the reason for the misunderstanding.

  6. #196
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    ENTPs like to argue. it's true. but NO damn ENTP gives a shit about any argument, especially one this stupid for this long.
    bwa ha ha ha! Perfect timing...!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Are you aware you were using the classic form of a Litotes? Do you know what this is? So here, the answer is YES: "I don't dislike dogs"="I love dogs".
    That's a figure of speech, that's verbal nuances, that's everyday life conversations.

    You're free to invent your own language, your own definitions, to justify (even "logically") your own sense of subjectivity. But don't complain if later, you're not very well understood.
    Exactly -- which we already agreed upon, oh, two hours ago? (He clearly stated that he prefers his rules, he gets irked when others have a different style, but described how he changed them to accommodate someone who didn't share them.)

    So why are you still arguing the point? Did we miss something here?

    In any case, this is pretty fascinating. Because you seem sincere in your stance in the last post... so I'm inclined to chalk this up as a "perception" issue based on personality and am trying to figure it out so I can grasp it finally.



    Quote Originally Posted by GreyDeath View Post
    ... when I take in information from the external world intuitively (especially with people for some reason), I pick up on very subtle nuances of their speech, expressions, body language, etc. and can tell if they are putting me on, lying to me, and generally sense their true motives/emotions, etc. I think, for me personally, I pick up on some nuances intuitively.
    Very well stated.

    A situation (or argument, or whatever else) is like a complex mobile, full of moving parts all going in different directions and speeds and weights and colors and sizes.

    When the situation is "right," the entire system is functioning smoothly. Everything is in the right relationship to everything else.

    When the nuances aren't right, the whole thing is out of alignment and it's quite obvious that something isn't matching up. The system flounders. It tells us something is WRONG.

    I remember a long time ago, I had just finished playing a show in downtown El Paso , and was hanging out outside of the club with my girlfriend and I saw a guy across the street, about 30-50 yards away, and I got a bad feeing about him just by looking at him, so I put my girlfriend behind me. The guy proceeded to walk right up to me and her (we were standing outside with about 15 other people, he ignored all of them), looked right through me at her, and start cussing and threatening her (he was crazy, pretty obvious once he started talking), and then walked off.

    I dont know what I picked up on, but I imagine there were subtle nuances to his walk, look, etc, that I caught intuitively. But then, who knows, maybe its something else.
    Could have been anything. But the nuances were not adding up. And you knew it. Sort of like Gavin de Becker's ancedotes. (He's a security expert, internationally, and believes we all have some degree of intuitive sense of when something isn't right... mostly because of little details being off that we haven't yet consciously become aware of.)

    We knew a married couple where the husband was behaving oddly, often staying out alone until 4am in the morning. He claimed he wasn't having an affair, and everyone (including his wife) wanted to believe him, but I knew he was full of shit. His story didn't mesh, the nuances were off, it just wasn't how people behaved... unless they were cheating. It was so obvious to me, even though I had no actual evidence of his cheating. But I didn't need it.

    And yes, he left her within a few months for another woman (the one he had been meeting) and they got divorced.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  7. #197
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    di, you're back.

    I'm glad.
    how glad are you?
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  8. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Again, you are completely wrong. I wasn't "passive-aggressive" at all, but you were, somehow.
    I think "completely wrong" might be an exaggeration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Today's rants on INTPs:

    -Lack of verbal nuances, especially when they involve a social context
    -Tendency to blame others for their own mistakes
    -So concerned about their own self, they could forget to see the obvious
    This is what I was referring to when I said you were being passive aggressive. How specifically was I passive aggressive? Later you said I was outright aggressive...that may be true, but it was unintentional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    1) You stubbornly refused to consider the tiny possibility you may be wrong, that something in your own reasoning may be flawed.

    2) You considered this tiny possibility as a personal attack.

    3) You refused to discuss it.

    4) And while it's true you did not state that "INTPs are the best... blah blah blah", it was Tallulah's primary reaction.
    1. I'm not saying that I'm necessarily not wrong ( i never did), just that He was wrong to express my stated ambivalence (at least that was my intended statement) as dislike or hatred.

    2. I didn't take that as a personal attack, I took the calling me stubborn and arrogant, and stating that I was rambling on in my own delirium offensive.

    3. How did I refuse to discuss it? If I remember correctly, I continued to discuss and support my point of view while you chose the route of posting the passive aggressive quote above, and began calling me arrogant and delirious instead of discussing or offering counter points.

    4. Thank you for clearing that one up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Your retaliations and aggressivity are disproportionate.
    Im sorry if I appeared retaliatory, I get passionate when I discuss things, and I certainly didnt intend to be aggressive, I just require that something be fully discussed, I get frustrated when discussion breaks down into insults (yes being called arrogant and delirious are insulting if you don't back up what ways I am being arrogant and delirious).

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Again, here is my point. Somebody asks you if you like dogs. Saying just "No", is a blunt negative statement, and should be interpreted as such.
    Again, you used another flawed example:

    "Could me saying "I don't dislike dogs" mean the same as I love dogs?"

    Are you aware you were using the classic form of a Litotes? Do you know what this is? So here, the answer is YES: "I don't dislike dogs"="I love dogs".
    That's a figure of speech, that's verbal nuances, that's everyday life conversations.
    As far as I can figure, you have to use Litotes intentionally, much like sarcasm. I will admit that I can see how someone could misinterpret my statement as a form of Litotes just as someone can misinterpret sarcasm.
    But when the individual that made the statement explains that the other misunderstood their meaning/intention, should that other person not accept the explanation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You're free to invent your own language, your own definitions, to justify (even "logically") your own sense of subjectivity. But don't complain if later, you're not very well understood.
    In fairness, I think most people do this to a degree in everyday conversation. Also, cultural, linguistic, and socio-economic differences will play a role.
    I'll complain, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised if someone misinterprets what I'm saying.
    Doesn't that happen frequently to most of us though?

    Either way, Blackmail!, thank you, this is all I wanted, an actual explanation of your view.

  9. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    ENTPs like to argue. it's true. but NO damn ENTP gives a shit about any argument, especially one this stupid for this long.
    Awesome, its funny how, I know its a stupid argument (discussion), but I still feel the need to see it through somehow. Maybe I have got ENTP in my INTP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    When the nuances aren't right, the whole thing is out of alignment and it's quite obvious that something isn't matching up. The system flounders. It tells us something is WRONG.

    Could have been anything. But the nuances were not adding up. And you knew it. Sort of like Gavin de Becker's ancedotes. (He's a security expert, internationally, and believes we all have some degree of intuitive sense of when something isn't right... mostly because of little details being off that we haven't yet consciously become aware of.)

    We knew a married couple where the husband was behaving oddly, often staying out alone until 4am in the morning. He claimed he wasn't having an affair, and everyone (including his wife) wanted to believe him, but I knew he was full of shit. His story didn't mesh, the nuances were off, it just wasn't how people behaved... unless they were cheating. It was so obvious to me, even though I had no actual evidence of his cheating. But I didn't need it.

    And yes, he left her within a few months for another woman (the one he had been meeting) and they got divorced.
    Is this a NT thing universally, or is it part of the IN thing, having their N focussed externally?

    It would be fascinating to be able to consciously grasp all of the nuances that are out of wack in a given situation...
    or would it be overwhelming...

  10. #200
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyDeath View Post
    Awesome, its funny how, I know its a stupid argument (discussion), but I still feel the need to see it through somehow. Maybe I have got ENTP in my INTP.
    how did you come to the conclusion that you must have ENTP in your INTP because you won't let this go?

    because someone who says they're ENTP won't let it go either?

    i just said no ENTP would bother with this. there are way too many other topics and people to argue about and with to stay this focused on something this silly for this long. the only type who will are the ones who just want the last word no matter what OR the type who think their own perception is the right one and if they keep going on and on (basically bullying by not shutting the fuck up about it) the other person will give in. and, actually think the other person giving up means they DID win.

    sorry, but ENTPs encourage freedom of thought even if it's someone else's. the arguing comes in to learn, to get to a truth, not to force your opponent to see you're right no matter what.

    to go on and on as if you're the only one who sees some magical light is ridiculous. especially when dealing with how SOMEONE ELSE SEES SOMETHING. how ridiculous is that. "you aren't right because i said so and i know how you should think and how everyone else thinks about how you think."

    pointless and frankly rude and self-righteous as hell of him, whatever he is.
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