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Thread: Rant on INTPs

  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Since many of the posters in this thread are NP's... that was bound to happen. You'll find threads here derail and cross-reference each other frequently. We've gotten kind of lazy about keeping threads relevant and on-topic here, so your criticism is valid.

    But for the record, I personally never assume much context on this board aside from basic MBTI knowledge, unless I'm talking to a specific person.
    I actually don't have issues with cross-references etc. I just like it to be explicit. I am not a mind reader. Nor do I want to read every post (or even every thread) that is posted. If I am starting a new thread, I will search to see if there is something similar (though I am not too sure the search function works that well).

    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    INTP's can't be morally beaten in arguments..

    1) They've thought about it more.
    2) They don't care if you'll hold a grudge after being beaten, other that they'll be proud of it.
    3) If there is a subject area where you would win an INTP, they probably dont care to argumentate about it, and dont feel bad for it.
    4) If they've been beaten, you've actually helped them forward.
    Why are arguments about winning and loosing? For me, it is a way of exploring different logical facets and perspectives (and of-course testing for logical consistency).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  2. #142
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Why are arguments about winning and loosing? For me, it is a way of exploring different logical facets and perspectives (and of-course testing for logical consistency).
    It just needs a bit of observation to see if someone starts the conversation that way.

    Now is there something you have against winning and losing?

    Would you be willing to compromise the quality of the discussion in order to get rid of the "competition" aspect?

    Of course, most discussions are not competitions, and it would be imprudent to elevate them to such level.

  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    It just needs a bit of observation to see if someone starts the conversation that way.

    Now is there something you have against winning and losing?

    Would you be willing to compromise the quality of the discussion in order to get rid of the "competition" aspect?

    Of course, most discussions are not competitions, and it would be imprudent to elevate them to such level.
    The adversarial nature of it is essential to keep from fooling ourselves. That is why both science and the justice system are set-up that way (to keep from collectively fooling ourselves). Competition is a good thing. It's just that when I compete, I almost don't care if I win or loose (I use the result as feedback on my style of play).

    Like today, I played almost the exact same "loosing" line in chess games against a friend, till I found an improvement that gave me equality or better (I was black). Others may have cared that they lost 3 or four games in a row, in almost exactly the same way, and I probably looked silly to my friend. But, I found a variation that gave equality (probably better). I had a gut feeling there was something there I was missing, and didn't mind loosing many chess games to find it.

    I think he's an ENTP. Next time, he'll probably have yet another variation on mine that will refute my line once again....and so the fun and edification continues.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #144
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Just my 2 cents as I have 2 close friends who are INTP's -- 1 is much more touchy feely and expressive of their amicability towards me and the other is tougher cookie. Both can come out of nowhere with sudden rants or tangents about how they don't like me using a particular word or that I am being ________.

    Both intellectualize a lot and seem to like my ENFP ability to follow and flow of conversation.

    One INTP friend is a bit of a push-over and does way too much for acquaintances but is supremely generous with friends.

    The other INTP is also wonderfully generous with friends and can be quite hospitable with random strangers (sometimes at the expense of the time and energy of other people who she 'volunteers' to help) -- but then she can be just plain MEAN!!! Mean and impossible to reason with!

    She is just straight up harsh sometimes and comes to these snap judgements about my character and I have to jokingly say MY GOD WOMAN GIVE ME SOME CREDIT! Like if I accidentally do something she SWEARS I did it on purpose and will NOT ACCEPT my apologies. She'll even go so far as to tell me that I am NOT sorry!

    I dunno if you know this or not, but for a sensitive ENFP this drives me NUTS!!!

    I guess that is an INTP thing? Yes? No?

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Just my 2 cents as I have 2 close friends who are INTP's -- 1 is much more touchy feely and expressive of their amicability towards me and the other is tougher cookie. Both can come out of nowhere with sudden rants or tangents about how they don't like me using a particular word or that I am being ________.

    Both intellectualize a lot and seem to like my ENFP ability to follow and flow of conversation.

    One INTP friend is a bit of a push-over and does way too much for acquaintances but is supremely generous with friends.

    The other INTP is also wonderfully generous with friends and can be quite hospitable with random strangers (sometimes at the expense of the time and energy of other people who she 'volunteers' to help) -- but then she can be just plain MEAN!!! Mean and impossible to reason with!

    She is just straight up harsh sometimes and comes to these snap judgements about my character and I have to jokingly say MY GOD WOMAN GIVE ME SOME CREDIT! Like if I accidentally do something she SWEARS I did it on purpose and will NOT ACCEPT my apologies. She'll even go so far as to tell me that I am NOT sorry!

    I dunno if you know this or not, but for a sensitive ENFP this drives me NUTS!!!

    I guess that is an INTP thing? Yes? No?
    Sounds like an N thing. Every N I had to deal with occasionally likes to indulge in emotional bribery. Just don't fall for it.

  6. #146
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Like today, I played almost the exact same "loosing" line in chess games against a friend, till I found an improvement that gave me equality or better (I was black). Others may have cared that they lost 3 or four games in a row, in almost exactly the same way, and I probably looked silly to my friend. But, I found a variation that gave equality (probably better). I had a gut feeling there was something there I was missing, and didn't mind loosing many chess games to find it.
    I've played warcraft III most often recently, tho I've quitted it for now.

    I too often decide *BEFORE* a game that I make it a test game, one where I learn about how a strategy works, not caring about the win that much. I of course hope that the strategy in question produces a winning result and in a way that proves it to work well. But I put most emphasis on testing and not caring.

    Then with other games, I decide *BEFORE* the game that I WANT to win. I decide it before I see what opponents I get, or before I know anything about the type of game it will be.

    SO when I want to win I decide it and keep it, and accept losses if they come. If I win a game that I didn't plan to win, I dont take credit for it.

  7. #147
    Junior Member LordPwnage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    - Lazy and likes to work the least amount possible
    - Negativistic and sees the glass half empty
    - Unreliable. Holds word depending on self-interest/mood.
    - Passive-Aggressive. Tends to value covert aggression and manipulation of people's thoughts instead of direct confrontation.
    - Secretive and holds information to keep power and upper-hand
    - Autocratic and does not consult others in decisions
    - Pours cold water on people's enthusiasm and happiness, as any manifestation of positive emotion is seen as superfluous
    - Overvalues negative feelings such as sadness and even assimilates the ability to have these feelings with intellectual depth
    - Pedantic and fastidious about spelling, grammar and theoretical frameworks
    - Disagreeable and cold attitude towards people
    - Lack of realism and interest in subjects that hold no practical value and benefit
    - Overly critical in a non-objective way. Does not establish criteria before criticism, but adapts criteria in function of possibility of criticism
    - Disagreeable. Will say the opposite just to say the opposite. If this is pinpointed to them, will agree. If it is shown to them that they agree when it is pinpointed to them, will disagree.
    - Tendency to believe in intellectual superiority over other human beings, despite any measure of the real world gains of this so called intelligence.
    - Undervalues facts, measures and any real world element that might contradict an internal thought system
    - Hides behind philosophy to diffuse contradiction of own ideas (i.e. "there is no such thing as objective truth", "everything is relative anyway", ...)
    - Lack of awareness of social dynamics
    - Gets stuck in thought and is bad at making decisions
    - Poor at managing people
    - Bad at managing own finances
    - Does not act responsibly enough with family
    - Overly sensitive self while being overly insensitive to other people
    - In romantic relationships, the type willing to spend the least possible amount of time with partner
    - Bad eating habits
    C'mon, that just wasn't fair.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    - Lazy and likes to work the least amount possible
    - Negativistic and sees the glass half empty
    - Unreliable. Holds word depending on self-interest/mood.
    - Passive-Aggressive. Tends to value covert aggression and manipulation of people's thoughts instead of direct confrontation.
    - Secretive and holds information to keep power and upper-hand
    - Autocratic and does not consult others in decisions
    - Pours cold water on people's enthusiasm and happiness, as any manifestation of positive emotion is seen as superfluous
    - Overvalues negative feelings such as sadness and even assimilates the ability to have these feelings with intellectual depth
    - Pedantic and fastidious about spelling, grammar and theoretical frameworks
    - Disagreeable and cold attitude towards people
    - Lack of realism and interest in subjects that hold no practical value and benefit
    - Overly critical in a non-objective way. Does not establish criteria before criticism, but adapts criteria in function of possibility of criticism
    - Disagreeable. Will say the opposite just to say the opposite. If this is pinpointed to them, will agree. If it is shown to them that they agree when it is pinpointed to them, will disagree.
    - Tendency to believe in intellectual superiority over other human beings, despite any measure of the real world gains of this so called intelligence.
    - Undervalues facts, measures and any real world element that might contradict an internal thought system
    - Hides behind philosophy to diffuse contradiction of own ideas (i.e. "there is no such thing as objective truth", "everything is relative anyway", ...)
    - Lack of awareness of social dynamics
    - Gets stuck in thought and is bad at making decisions
    - Poor at managing people
    - Bad at managing own finances
    - Does not act responsibly enough with family
    - Overly sensitive self while being overly insensitive to other people
    - In romantic relationships, the type willing to spend the least possible amount of time with partner
    - Bad eating habits
    genius - ill never have to visit typelogic again

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    - Lazy and likes to work the least amount possible
    - Negativistic and sees the glass half empty
    - Unreliable. Holds word depending on self-interest/mood.
    - Passive-Aggressive. Tends to value covert aggression and manipulation of people's thoughts instead of direct confrontation.
    - Secretive and holds information to keep power and upper-hand
    - Autocratic and does not consult others in decisions
    - Pours cold water on people's enthusiasm and happiness, as any manifestation of positive emotion is seen as superfluous
    - Overvalues negative feelings such as sadness and even assimilates the ability to have these feelings with intellectual depth
    - Pedantic and fastidious about spelling, grammar and theoretical frameworks
    - Disagreeable and cold attitude towards people
    - Lack of realism and interest in subjects that hold no practical value and benefit
    - Overly critical in a non-objective way. Does not establish criteria before criticism, but adapts criteria in function of possibility of criticism
    - Disagreeable. Will say the opposite just to say the opposite. If this is pinpointed to them, will agree. If it is shown to them that they agree when it is pinpointed to them, will disagree.
    - Tendency to believe in intellectual superiority over other human beings, despite any measure of the real world gains of this so called intelligence.
    - Undervalues facts, measures and any real world element that might contradict an internal thought system
    - Hides behind philosophy to diffuse contradiction of own ideas (i.e. "there is no such thing as objective truth", "everything is relative anyway", ...)
    - Lack of awareness of social dynamics
    - Gets stuck in thought and is bad at making decisions
    - Poor at managing people
    - Bad at managing own finances
    - Does not act responsibly enough with family
    - Overly sensitive self while being overly insensitive to other people
    - In romantic relationships, the type willing to spend the least possible amount of time with partner
    - Bad eating habits
    OMG....you must know my INTP ex-boyfriend!

  10. #150
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I have known an INTP to do this because the alternative was to concede an argument, which he was constitutionally incapable of doing at the time.

    In fairness, I think it's more of a maturity thing than a type thing.
    Generally, even most unhealthy INTPs tend to be obessed with knowing the truth...sophisms tend to be rare..though their obsession with their inner system which often leads to neglect of the problems others propound makes them seem like they are equivocating to hide their ignorance, incompetence. When in reality they are trying to avoid being ignorant and incompetent (they are not concerned with whether or not others see them as ignorant or incompetent because they are too internally focused to be conscious of their image).

    Usually this is a problem in communication which is a consequence of poorly employed extroverted function of the INTP.

    INTPs tend not to have a problem conceding they're wrong because their approach is impersonal and they tend not to take external standards seriously..so being outdone tends to be taken lightly...

    Though what they might do in such a case..is simply skirt the issue..trying to correct their position. Purposefully concealing their 'wrongness' tends to be rare.

    Many think that Hegel and Heidegger only write in such complex jargon because they want to prevent others from knowing that their philosophy is rubbish. Yet the reality seems to be that they are just trying to work through their thoughts that are stuck too deeply down--and seem to lack the expositional merits.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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