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Thread: Rant on INTPs

  1. #121
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    That's a bit vague. We'd need to see more of her. That is why I said I cant type her because I dont have enough information to clearly recognize the patterns of her unconscious tendencies.
    You are the one who originally suggested that she does not behave like an INTJ. If you cannot produce sufficient evidence for what type you think she is, then you can't reasonably criticize others for the same. :rolli:
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  2. #122
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    You are the one who originally suggested that she does not behave like an INTJ. If you cannot produce sufficient evidence for what type you think she is, then you can't reasonably criticize others for the same. :rolli:
    Yes, I said she behaves in a way that isn't to be expected from an INTJ on this forum. Didn't say that she wasnt one.

    Most INTJs on this board are unlikely to say 'I am not going to argue with you, agree to disagree', before even the initial premises were set up.

    And they tend to be less interested in personal anecdotes. But again, this is only behavior, not unconscious tendencies. So we're not even talking type here...
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  3. #123
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    We are simply going back and forth saying the same thing in different ways. Whether you say it in several paragraphs or in two sentences you are essentially saying, "INP's are not arrogant. We are simply better than everyone else." :rolli:
    I think that the mindset of pursuing a purpose that you know you will never achieve will pull you towards humility much more than the notion that your type is most likely to gravitate towards the quest for a higher purpose than all other types will pull you towards arrogance. Unlike EJs, such a notion INPs are unlikely to whole-heartedly embrace as they tend not to think it important to compare themselves to others. Hence, that is another reason to think that this will contribute little towards them becoming arrogant.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  4. #124
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    Boring. I had an INTP teacher, and I could barely keep my eyes open
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

  5. #125
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlnamedbless View Post
    Boring. I had an INTP teacher, and I could barely keep my eyes open
    What subject was he teaching?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  6. #126
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Eh. I see these things as situational personality type adaptations. IOW, given a difficult social situation, then:

    INTPs will obfuscate their way around it,
    INTJs will charge it head on and bowl it over,
    and INFPs will use a little feel-good sleight-of-hand to tiptoe past it.

    Each personality type is quite sure that their method of handling the situation causes the least fuss and harm, and each type is a little shocked at how the other types handle the situation. Watching each other deal with the situation, the INFPs accuse INTJs of being bullies, and the INTJs accuse the INFPs of being liars. In turn, INTPs may well come off as manipulators to both the INTJ and INFP.

    Or, alternatively, all three personality types can adjust their filters and accept that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

    All personality types have their typical shortcuts or nickel-and-dime rip-offs in response to difficult situations, especially when viewed through the filter of another personality type. But assuming that we're talking about average representatives of each type, then these shortcuts or petty rip-offs typically don't rise to the level of criminality or sociopathic deceit.

    IOW, if you have an employee of another personality type, then you understand that they have their own way of dealing with certain situations. You adjust your filter in a way that allows you to see their basic honesty and not get too riled that they do things differently from you, and you go ahead and entrust them with the till (until such time as their shortcuts or rip-offs rise to the level of universally-acknowledged untrustworthiness or criminality).

    This philosophy may sound too feel-good or wishy-washy for everyone. But I was a sergeant in the Marines for a lot of years. As a sergeant in charge of troops, I couldn't just fire or transfer the troops when they pulled a petty rip-off or didn't do things my way. And their rip-offs usually didn't rise to the level of chargeable crimes. Nor could I run around beating up on them for being bullies and manipulators and liars when I didn't like their methods--after all, I needed them to get the work done around the place. You work with what you've got.

    So I learned to adjust my filter to account for the troops and I accepted that there's more than one way to skin a cat. I kept order and maintained discipline by identifying and curbing the worst excesses, and otherwise I gave the troops some leeway and let them use their own initiative as much as possible. After all, I couldn't do all the work all by myself. Ultimately, we all got along just fine and got the job done. Again, you work with what you've got.
    I agree with your assessment,
    and I have chosen a similar "filter adjustment".

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    It mostly comes from the posts that she's made in her intro thread. I've talked to her about her family and she gave responses that I would expect from an INTJ. Also she hits enter after every sentence. Unconventional behavior like that is what you would expect from a dominant intuitor. (Unless she was trained to do that in some context that I am not aware of.)
    tee-hee

    I have been learning about MBTI for over 15 years. I have been using books by Paul Tieger and Barbara Barron, Kiersey, and Naomi L. Quenk. I use MBTI as a way to deal with people in real life as I have no natural ability to do so.

    The reason I am an I is because given the choice I would rather spend the rest of my life on a deserted island, than on a similar island inhabited by 100 people.
    I can extrovert, but it exhausts me.

    The reason I am an N is because I do not take in tiny bits of information around me the way the Ss in my life do.
    I tend to see the big picture, the whole problem, and frequently feel overwhelmed when my problem seem like an insurmountable mountain which I am incapable of breaking up into bite-sized pieces.
    (I have learned to use S more because of my ISTP husband, but it's not natural.)

    The reason I am a T is because as a child I was cruel and tactless. I did not naturally empathize with people and did not care about their feelings. Caring about feelings is exhausting! I have, for the last 20 years however, been learning to be more diplomatic because I think it's better than going around offending everyone in my path. I do it quite enough on an accidental basis.

    The reason I am a J is because I MUST know everything NOW. I don't want to keep my options open. I DON'T want to cross that bridge when I come to it. I cannot stand the unknown.

    That said, the only professional test I have taken is the DISC test. You are probably familiar with it as you seem thoroughly studied. I came out D/C both times. Are you familiar with the graph results? Well, both times I took the test, several years apart, the administrator of the test said the graph showed that I suffered from some sort of inner conflict, but did not explain further. The only sense I have ever been able to make out of that comment is what I have read from Kiersey about the motivation of the INFJ to "be the best that they can be" (rough paraphrase of the idea). This describes me. Not only that but many of the common strengths of the INTJ, I feel that I do not possess. Sadly, I possess all the weaknesses. When I read Kiersey's description of the NF, I feel that it describes me quite a bit, though of course, not completely. It took many years for me to come to the place of admitting and accepting that I am first and foremostly a T. Up to now, I have been understanding myself as an INTJ on the outside, and an INFJ on the inside. I believe the reason for it must lie in the fact that I came from a severely dysfunctional home.



    (The reason I am not shortening my margin is because for some reason it appears to distract INTPs, and because this is so long.)
    Last edited by INTJMom; 10-01-2007 at 06:42 AM. Reason: merged posts

  7. #127
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I dont have data, its all pure reasoning.
    There is no such thing as "pure reasoning".
    In order for your reasoning to be pure, you would have to be pure.
    Everyone sees life through a set of tinted glasses that slightly skews their perceptions.
    It's impossible for your reasoning to not be tainted by your soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I suppose, I am really asking what made you feel manipulated (small sample size or not). Feel free to use fake names to protect identity etc.
    I can PM you later when I get a chance. I don't want to make it public just because of the subject matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
    I noticed that at least a couple of the INTPs who you interpreted as rude were being facetious, but you took their jokes quite literally, which surprised me, since INTJs don't typically respond in that fashion.
    I am surprised that you think my response was atypical. I have always been very serious and I have read in many places that INTJs tend to be serious.

    One of the lessons my husband (ISTP) has had to learn with his little smart-aleck remarks is sometimes they are appropriate, and sometimes they are not.

    Perhaps those INTPs should learn that perhaps they should let a person get to know you first before you start cracking smart remarks. What kind of a welcome is it when someone meets you for the very first time and says, oh great, another one. THAT is NOT a welcome. That is a slam. Even though I felt hurt, I did not allow myself to respond in a rude manner. It was only after the second one that I began to feel that I was unwelcome and I spoke up for myself.

    Maybe INTPs should learn that cracking mean jokes to perfect strangers is not appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Yes, I said she behaves in a way that isn't to be expected from an INTJ on this forum. Didn't say that she wasnt one.

    Most INTJs on this board are unlikely to say 'I am not going to argue with you, agree to disagree', before even the initial premises were set up.

    And they tend to be less interested in personal anecdotes. But again, this is only behavior, not unconscious tendencies. So we're not even talking type here...
    The reason I did not want to argue with you is because I hate fighting a lost war. You are all set up in your mighty fortress, and my little pea-shooter is not going to have any effect.
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 10-04-2007 at 12:34 PM. Reason: merged posts

  8. #128
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    What subject was he teaching?
    Humanities, which was supposed to be about religion, etc. His approach was so weird. Instead of learning the basics, he would jump into the scriptures and want to go into the sacred texts and examine them. Then he would ramble on, jump from subject to subject, and instead of notes/lectures he would just scribble words on the board.

    I'm in a religions class right now and it's a lot better. I guess we take what you could call the more "S" approach - looking at the history, finding out how it affected people, and the basics. I learned more in the last two weeks than I did all of last school year.
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

  9. #129
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Bless them, they're like a rehabilitated Borg sometimes in groups - trying so hard to fit in and join the conversation, looking for something they can respond to, and end up leaping in with an etymology of the phrase 'check mate' when someone mentions that they're going to buy a chess board... haha...

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  10. #130
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    The reason I did not want to argue with you is because I hate fighting a lost war. You are all set up in your mighty fortress, and my little pea-shooter is not going to have any effect.

    You can only seige the fortress with hard logic. That is Ti, your faculties appear to be dearth of this subtance.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    There is no such thing as "pure reasoning".
    In order for your reasoning to be pure, you would have to be pure.
    Everyone sees life through a set of tinted glasses that slightly skews their perceptions.
    It's impossible for your reasoning to not be tainted by your soul..
    There can be no doubt that we all have intuitions and feelings and they intermingle with our thinking. To be objective means not to eliminate those faculties, but merely seperate your reasoning from them.


    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Perhaps those INTPs should learn that perhaps they should let a person get to know you first before you start cracking smart remarks...
    Ps, especially NPs tend to be very subtle in their communication. They'd expect you to pick up on their cues intuitively, as they apply their intuition to the external world. (NP is a code for Extroverted Intuition).


    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    One of the lessons my husband (ISTP) has had to learn with his little smart-aleck remarks is sometimes they are appropriate, and sometimes they are not....
    Unfortunately, introverted judgers (Ps), tend to have little regard for etiquette. Aspecially ITPs. This is the case because only ethical actions that show integrity of inner character have merit. Otherwise it is mere cant. As for example, Js will often do good without being good. Be polite, without being sincere. As you've implied this is what those INTPs who were rude to you should do. What good would it have been for them to be polite to you if they never meant you well?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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