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  1. #61
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Come on, as a fellow ENTP, you should know that we make our best points without ever coming up with a direct statement.

    Did Kuwait ever industrialize in a complete sense? Have they developed any sort of industrialized trade beyond that of resource extraction? Is there any sort of manufacturing done in Kuwait? Those are the more important questions.
    They have to some degree, and their wealth is the cause of that. However the government owns all of the oil. I tend to think once their oil runs out, that their prosperity will plummet. Granted I think they'll do better than the other oil countries in the Middle East, because they are doing better right now. But they rely too much on oil for their continued prosperity.

    However consider Japan. This is a country that is doing extremely well economically in spite of having relatively few resources compared to it's population size. Japan prospers because they have a capitalist economy. They import, manufacture, then export. (And really nowadays they just build factories in other countries.) They don't need native resources (other than human resources) because they can make money buying other people's resources. The key is how the economy works rather than just having a lot of native resources.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  2. #62
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Mmh, failed to get rich... I don't really know.


    You know... I'm working on my second million.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #63
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    They have to some degree, and their wealth is the cause of that. However the government owns all of the oil. I tend to think once their oil runs out, that their prosperity will plummet. Granted I think they'll do better than the other oil countries in the Middle East, because they are doing better right now. But they rely too much on oil for their continued prosperity.

    However consider Japan. This is a country that is doing extremely well economically in spite of having relatively few resources compared to it's population size. Japan prospers because they have a capitalist economy. They import, manufacture, then export. (And really nowadays they just build factories in other countries.) They don't need native resources (other than human resources) because they can make money buying other people's resources. The key is how the economy works rather than just having a lot of native resources.
    Have you forgotten their history, I think the only reason they are at where they are now is because the united states helps them. I'm sure that they aquired much wealth in times of war too, they enslaved my native country. Yea you only hear about the JEWS, but what about the Armenians or Koreans?

    There are so many factors that can affect a country's wealth you can't just talk economics and expect that to tell the whole story. There's alot of killing and looting involved too in history. It's said they took the gold right off the jew's teeth after killing them.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Explain this? How is harder one works relate to how much money one earns?
    Ok. Let's assume that Joe Somebody wants to be wealthy and prosperous. Joe Somebody gets a job and works very hard at that job. However, Joe finds that the more he works, the more profit he generates for Bob Capitalist. Accordingly, Joe somebody will slave away and (unless he's an exception to the rule) will never be able to match Bob Capitalist in monetary status. Why? There are several reasons but the main one has to do with exploitation. Namely, not paying workers the full value of their labor. This is clearly evident in Third World countries where peasants work for peanuts and the harder they work the more wealth they generate to the landlords and capitalists. And thus it is an illusion that they buy into that if they work hard enough they will end up like Bob Capitalist. Again, it does happen but is an exception rather than rule. Yet it's also evident states like the United States as well, where workers are not compensated for the full value of their work. The difference between the real value of labor and what the worker is actually paid is also taken by the Bob Capitalist. On the other hand, if workers did receive the full value of their labor it would mean less money in the Bob Capitalist's pocket. It's class warfare. The property owning class has been ahead for a long time, especially in the US, and this explains why so many workers are at the wrath of capitalists. Furthermore, Antonio Gramsci write extensively about cultural hegemony in his Prison Notes. In essence, Gramsci was curious at the time he wrote as to why there haden't been a socialist revolution as Marx predicted. He claimed it was because of cultural hegemony. Cultural hegemony refers to the phenomenon whereby the values of the bourgeoise are absorbed by the prolitariat. However, these values go directly against their class interest and serve to merely perpetuate the status quo. As such, the American bourgoise dream is merely a piece of propaganda whch serves the property class interest, and when followed by the prolitariat, serves to merely reinforce the status quo rather than change it.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I don't make much distinction between socialist democracies and capitalist democracies.
    Are you serious? That is tantamount to saying I don't make a distinction between communism and facism or between liberalism and idealism. Well, you shouldn't be so proud about your ignorance--in addition to being a poor scholar that suggests you lack character as well. There are big distinctions to be sure but that is besides the point of this thread. Do some reading. I can recommend a pethora of scholars that could illuminate the distinctions for you if you care to learn: Noam Chomsky, Stephen F. Cohen, Joseph Stiglitz, Howard Zinn to name just a few.

  6. #66
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    Ok. Let's assume that Joe Somebody wants to be wealthy and prosperous. Joe Somebody gets a job and works very hard at that job. However, Joe finds that the more he works, the more profit he generates for Bob Capitalist. Accordingly, Joe somebody will slave away and (unless he's an exception to the rule) will never be able to match Bob Capitalist in monetary status. Why? There are several reasons but the main one has to do with exploitation. Namely, not paying workers the full value of their labor. This is clearly evident in Third World countries where peasants work for peanuts and the harder they work the more wealth they generate to the landlords and capitalists. And thus it is an illusion that they buy into that if they work hard enough they will end up like Bob Capitalist. Again, it does happen but is an exception rather than rule. Yet it's also evident states like the United States as well, where workers are not compensated for the full value of their work. The difference between the real value of labor and what the worker is actually paid is also taken by the Bob Capitalist. On the other hand, if workers did receive the full value of their labor it would mean less money in the Bob Capitalist's pocket. It's class warfare. The property owning class has been ahead for a long time, especially in the US, and this explains why so many workers are at the wrath of capitalists. Furthermore, Antonio Gramsci write extensively about cultural hegemony in his Prison Notes. In essence, Gramsci was curious at the time he wrote as to why there haden't been a socialist revolution as Marx predicted. He claimed it was because of cultural hegemony. Cultural hegemony refers to the phenomenon whereby the values of the bourgeoise are absorbed by the prolitariat. However, these values go directly against their class interest and serve to merely perpetuate the status quo. As such, the American bourgoise dream is merely a piece of propaganda whch serves the property class interest, and when followed by the prolitariat, serves to merely reinforce the status quo rather than change it.
    That was a long read, but I'd rather just sum it up like this.
    They're fkin enslaving us, and many are fkin enslaving themselves. SLAVES!!

  7. #67
    Senior Member BallentineChen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Explain

    If capitalism favor self interest and equal opportunity for all, why does so many people fail to get rich?
    I'd say because there's a discrepancy between the theory and reality, in an ideal capitalist society non-profits would not exist. In the US, non-profits do not redistribute their profits to shareholders, they are retained in the organization as unrestricted funds for future use. While it's in the interest of non-profits to be financially sound, their funds are used for purposes other than generating a monetary return. It's not that capitalism doesn't work, it's that it only captures a part of the story.
    "For a man who wants to make a profession of good in all regards must come to ruin among so many who are not good. Hence it is necessary to a prince, if he wants to maintain himself, to learn to be able not to be good, and to use this and not use it according to necessity."
    Niccolo Machiavelli

  8. #68
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    And WTF is with the great seal on the $1 bill, it's in fkin latin talkin about the new order of the ages, with some eyeball as the last step of a 13 layer pyramid, with a roman numeral date on the base. And why does almost every fkin US president have blood relations to the royal british family? I would even look into Obama that foo aint black, he's half white and acts white.

    And Arnold Swchartz is our governor? Who the fk voted for some meat head to run California?

    We seem to be moving backwards in time, our leaders are becoming outrageously idiotic. Wouldn't you want leaders to get smarter?

  9. #69
    Senior Member Valuable_Money's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Explain

    If capitalism favor self interest and equal opportunity for all, why does so many people fail to get rich?
    Because of bad grammer
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh? wgah'nagl fhtagn

  10. #70
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valuable_Money View Post
    Because of bad grammer
    Because of bad spelling of GRAMMAR. What a freggin hypocrite. Before you check others for correctness in their little insignificant mistakes, check your own.

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