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  1. #31
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    That's too bad. This is the first thread about ENTP's that was derailed by an INTJ. It was actually getting interesting.

    Oh well. I have been derail INTJ things all the time

    I guess other people have to be given the shot of derailment besides me.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  2. #32
    Senior Member mwv6r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    ....Since you never called him, he thought you were the one holding the grudge. Then you still had the nerve to dance at his wedding? Chutzpah.

    I, for one, don't hold grudges. It's senseless and time wasting. I'm sure he is annoyed with you because he's assuming that you are holding some huge grudge. Just call him and congratulate him. Talk to him directly and just make things back to normal. Don't even bring up the incident when you visited. It's not worth it. Just move forward (unless, of course, you think this man has a substance problem...)

    My 2 cents.


    EDIT: knowing ESTPs and the way they speak, he probably ripped your ENTP a new one, compounding the problem even more. Seriously, he probably made it seem like it was 10x worse than what it was - I'm sure that has had an affect on the ENTPs psyche, too.
    I get the gist of your post. I probably should have called him personally six months ago to let him know everything was cool from my end. I don't think it was chutzpah to dance with him at the wedding though because up to that point in the evening things had been smooth and so far indications were that the situation was dead and buried. Later on (after more alcohol) is when things started to unravel.

    I can tell you for certain that my ESTP didn't rip into him because he showed me the text message before he sent it. The ESFJ and then the ENTP had sent him text messages the next day asking if I was mad and why because I left suddenly (I didn't leave to be dramatic but because I didn't want to cry in front of them. In those situations I try to get out so that I don't become emotional in front of people. Who knows maybe I should have just stayed and cried and maybe it would have gotten things out in the open where they could have been resolved, although in my defense he was pretty scary that night). Anyway, my ESTP's text in response was very mild, something like "Mary feels like you were rude to her the other night." Then the ENTP texted back that he was sorry if he offended me, and that was that, or so I thought...

  3. #33
    Senior Member mwv6r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Was your move sprung on him, did you give him foreshadowing (enough heads-up) that you both were indeed contemplating moving? Or, did you let him know once everything was already decided? How much heads-up was he given? Was the move something that you, more than your ESTP hubby, initiated? He might hold resentment towards you for taking away his best friend so abruptly (ESTP), without giving him sufficient time to prepare.
    Yes good point, I was starting to come to that conclusion myself and just now read your post.

    He didn't have much advance notice about the move at all, maybe a couple of weeks, and we told them after it was already decided. We actually sat on the info for several weeks because we were nervous to tell them (knew they'd be disappointed, especially the ENTP) and we weren't sure how to do it.... Again, we weren't trying to be mean or hurt them intentionally, of course, sometimes those things are just a little awkward.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwv6r View Post
    Yes good point, I was starting to come to that conclusion myself and just now read your post.

    He didn't have much advance notice about the move at all, maybe a couple of weeks, and we told them after it was already decided. We actually sat on the info for several weeks because we were nervous to tell them (knew they'd be disappointed, especially the ENTP) and we weren't sure how to do it.... Again, we weren't trying to be mean or hurt them intentionally, of course, sometimes those things are just a little awkward.
    Bromance leads to many a

    Give it time to get over his petulance (ENTPs often become very kid-like when they don't know how exactly to channel hurt, and most often, it becomes anger, and them going for your jugular). And, figure out some ways to conveniently, and surrepticiously convey to him that it was a mutual decision on both your parts (hubby and yourself), if the friendship is that important, give opportunities, esp. your hubby, to show that he does miss the ENTP, terribly, horribly, grievingly (yes, it's a bit dramatic, but that ENTP seems a bit petulant and dramatic), call out the issue and what you assume his hurt is over, and let time do the rest.

    EDIT: I don't think you did anything really wrong, actually, the only shady area is not giving the ENTP enough credit to be upfront with him/them as soon as you knew, and thus letting the problem sit which exacerbated the situation.

  5. #35
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwv6r View Post
    I get the gist of your post. I probably should have called him personally six months ago to let him know everything was cool from my end. I don't think it was chutzpah to dance with him at the wedding though because up to that point in the evening things had been smooth and so far indications were that the situation was dead and buried. Later on (after more alcohol) is when things started to unravel.

    I can tell you for certain that my ESTP didn't rip into him because he showed me the text message before he sent it. The ESFJ and then the ENTP had sent him text messages the next day asking if I was mad and why because I left suddenly (I didn't leave to be dramatic but because I didn't want to cry in front of them. In those situations I try to get out so that I don't become emotional in front of people. Who knows maybe I should have just stayed and cried and maybe it would have gotten things out in the open where they could have been resolved, although in my defense he was pretty scary that night). Anyway, my ESTP's text in response was very mild, something like "Mary feels like you were rude to her the other night." Then the ENTP texted back that he was sorry if he offended me, and that was that, or so I thought...
    I know you don't think it was chutzpah, I'm telling you what I would think - and that's the whole point of this thread, right?

    If I had gotten that text from my friend, to be honest, I would write you off as well. I don't want to be around a sad, mopey person who obviously doesn't like me and is fighting back tears whenever in my presence.

    I am not saying that is what you are, by any means, just what he may be thinking. Of course he would apologize, but maybe he still has no idea what the hell happened all of a sudden. And now he knows (or feels strongly) that you don't like him, but you still haven't spoken to him about it. Hence, the little outbursts of "you don't like me" when he's been drinking.

    It's not brain surgery, just call him and clear the air. Stop guessing about what he may be feeling and just ask him. Or ask his wife, if you're too shy. But it seems that you just want to believe it's about the move. So, then that should be your belief. Either way, you have to talk to him if you want to remain friends. We really have no way of knowing the truth.

  6. #36
    Senior Member mwv6r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    If I had gotten that text from my friend, to be honest, I would write you off as well. I don't want to be around a sad, mopey person who obviously doesn't like me and is fighting back tears whenever in my presence.
    Actually I did a pretty good job of pretending his comments weren't bothering me / pretending I didn't notice them. My fiance asked me afterwards if I wanted him to say anything to the ENTP and I said no because I didn't want to create any drama at their wedding and because going down that road last time with an intermediary clearly screwed things up worse. So now I am debating whether to contact him personally to clear the air or just to hope for better luck next time, and honestly I'm leaning toward the latter because I feel like bringing it up at this point would come across as too similar to what happened last time, and then it'd be like, oh, she always gets offended and then I have to hear about it later, etc.

    Also, I want to clarify that I have played it pretty cool both times he was rude to me. Even the first time I didn't get teary-eyed or anything in front of him, I always wait for privacy or the comfort of a close friend before letting out the waterworks. And I'm not a shrinking violet; I can handle myself well in a variety of social situations, but when I get the feeling that someone is being pointedly rude to me repeatedly and maliciously throughout an evening, then that does hurt my feelings and I try to remove myself from the situation. I think that part of why this is so perplexing to me is that it has never happened to me before. I usually get along very well with pretty much all types of people because I'm friendly, don't take offense to little things, and am not judgmental. I just wanted to put that out there because I realized from looking back at my posts it may sound like I'm overemotional all the time when really I am careful to avoid dramatic displays of emotion.

  7. #37
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I can tell you are a reasonable person. That has nothing to do with his perception of the matter. If he feels (or your fiance implied) that you had something to do with the move, or with not telling him sooner, coupled with the fact that you smiled in his face but then had your fiance text him later... and then didn't acknowledge his apology - yeah, I can kinda see why he'd get the impression that you don't like him, but are pretending to. So, like I said the first time, just call him and act friendly and normal and this will all blow over. But if you must know and talk about it, ask him or his wife directly. But I would just pretend like it all never happened. He'll get over it. It's nice that you even care enough to go through all this. Is his friendship really worth it to you?

  8. #38
    Senior Member mwv6r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    It's nice that you even care enough to go through all this. Is his friendship really worth it to you?
    That's a good question. I think if he and I were just friends as individuals, I might have jumped ship by now. But since we're friends as two couples, it makes things a little different because there are two other people involved. I definitely want to remain friends with his wife, and that wouldn't really be possible if he and I don't get along. Similarly I don't want to get in between my fiance and his friendship. If we can get to a point where things calm down between us, it will have been worth it to me to go through this. Hopefully things do calm down. The next time we'll see them will be at our wedding, and it's occurred to me that both times there were negative incidents it was on his turf, so to speak. This time it will be on ours, and there will be so many people around us that I'll be able to pretty tactfully escape and just go talk to someone else if things start to get strange, so I am feeling more optimistic. We'll see.

  9. #39
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Could be something completely extraneous as well - anything stressful going on in his life? It might not be that he's in love with you per se, but maybe there's someone at work that he is in love with, and you being similar to her allows him a "safer" avenue for the ventilation of his internal turmoil.

    Or, he could just be an insensitive jerk. We do have a tendency to be that way from time to time.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    The ENTP has moved on. There may be some deep, underlying reasoning, but there most likely isn't.

    He just... moved on.

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