[ENTP] Rant on ENTPs

[Economica]

*heads to the feedback forum to inquire about the possibility of fixing this post-eating bug*

 

[MacGuffin]

*heads to the feedback forum to inquire about the possibility of fixing this post-eating bug*

It's okay, digest just can't work the internets.

 

[cascadeco]

One of my good friends is married to an ENTP. She loves him to death, but what drives her crazy is -
*The minute he has a bad day at work, even if almost all the other days he enjoys, he immediately starts looking for a new job, and in some cases actually starts interviewing
*He'll do really random things. Like, they're trying to sell their house, and because it's been on the market for [only] 5 weeks, he is getting stressed that it hasn't sold yet. So on Craigslist he comes across a woman who is interested in a house, and at 5pm in the afternoon, he calls his wife, who just got home, and says someone is going to come look at the house at 5:30. She's like...'what'?? And she tells me it turns out he didn't even research whether the woman could afford the house (which she couldn't). So my friend was left in the somewhat awkward position of being forced to show the house to this woman, and chitchat with the woman, only to find out the woman couldn't afford it anyway.
*He gets bored easily. It'll drive my friend crazy, when she's just trying to read a book, and he'll come in, and just want her to entertain him, or give him something to do. He can't really sit still.
*Otherwise, in casual settings, he's very easygoing, and I don't have any issues getting along with him.

Other than him, I haven't come across any ENTP's in real life, that I know of. However, in another web forum, I drove an ENTP *up the wall*. [there had been an mbti thread, and he posted he was ENTP] It's like my posts simultaneously intrigued him, and irritated the crap out of him. ;-) He really zeroed in on me, and my very existance and my point of view seemed to bother him. Oh...I made him snap. He was quite fond of the phrase/mentality that 'The world is not a big happy hugfest, with Barney's dancing around' -- stuff along those lines. He eventually got kicked out of the entire forum, because he ruffled too many feathers, and was....extremely rude and unopen to any viewpoints that differed from his. I tend to think he was an extreme ENTP though.

 

[digesthisickness]

It's okay, digest just can't work the internets.

bwaha!!

i didn't even realize i'd done that.

no doubt, i, like so many other victims, once again fell prey to being too preoccupied with fantasies of you, mac.

 

[digesthisickness]

long story about a suspected ENTP

he sounds much more S than N to me. much.

...

and substitute, what i meant to say, but apparently couldn't master the complicated quote function to do so, was that i feel ya. i put on egotistical shows, and because it's always done in fun to make the other person smile, it makes me feel ill if i realize later that it could have sounded to them like i thought i was better... unless they've pissed me off, i feel neutral about them, but strongly disagree with them, and/or i really don't like them (but that's an entirely different subject). if you're like me, you're just as quick to bolster the ego of someone you like while owning your own faults.

i think it's just that in text, we can't express that "i'm just being full of shit" thing that is so much easier to convey in real life.

 

[substitute]

and substitute, what i meant to say, but apparently couldn't master the complicated quote function to do so, was that i feel ya. i put on egotistical shows, and because it's always done in fun to make the other person smile, it makes me feel ill if i realize later that it could have sounded to them like i thought i was better...

Yes, when I realise that they thought I was being serious, and they really think I really am that arrogant, makes me feel ill too. Sometimes I wonder though, how someone can think, based on a few bullshit, larger-than-life joke routines that I do (for want of a better way of putting it), that I spend my whole time tweaking the nose of Authority and dropping ice cubes of chaos down the vest of Order when in fact, mostly I just do paperwork, play with the kids, shift stuff and get along nicely with people.

It can also make me feel quite cynical at times though, because whilst people are all too happy to judge me and call me arrogant, obnoxious etc because of these misunderstandings, who is it they always want to come to their dinner parties to liven things up? If I'm so bad, why do they always want me there, and pressure me if I try and make excuses not to go, and go to such lengths to get me there, even changing dates to be convenient to me?

At the end of the day there are a lot of people out there who want a certain image but just don't have the charisma to carry it, and they invite me to their parties to 'perform' for them, cos they know I can do it, I can juggle the dynamics of all the different guests and make sure everyone's having a good time, actually working my nuts off the whole time, averting disasters and confrontations, lifting up depressed people and bringing shy people out of their shells. And yes, sometimes I do enjoy it, the feeling of being like a conductor of an orchestra full of words that I just have to point at and they marshall into just the right order to create just the atmosphere and meaning I want to convey, and sometimes yes it is ego boosting to have people say how I can always find the right things to say and how I'm the life of the group - is that a crime? Are other types going to pretend they don't like compliments or hearing their good points praised?? But then it's no fun when I do all this, only to be accused later by some drunk, bitter asshole of being egotistical and attention seeking when I'm actually exhausted from a whole evening of give, give, give and letting other people leech of my energy.

if you're like me, you're just as quick to bolster the ego of someone you like while owning your own faults.

Yeah... that's the thing, I wonder where anyone gets this idea that I'm so arrogant when I'm always extremely open about my faults and whenever I'm criticized I almost always apologise unreservedly and admit my faults. And the poignant part is where eventually some people realise that what they've been calling the result of arrogant attention seeking and thinking I'm better than others, all along it was actually deep insecurity and self-doubt that was looking for reassurance and acceptance through cheerfulness and playfulness and trying to be fun to be with

i think it's just that in text, we can't express that "i'm just being full of shit" thing that is so much easier to convey in real life.

That... and also that in a forum situation where people can't actually observe the way I live my life, I might say things and sorta 'proclaim' things that in RL I wouldn't dream of saying out loud cos like you say,it's better to let people observe. Sometimes I guess I have a bit too much faith in people to realise that and give me the benefit of the doubt...

 

[INTJMom]

... they invite me to their parties to 'perform' for them, cos they know I can do it, I can juggle the dynamics of all the different guests and make sure everyone's having a good time, actually working my nuts off the whole time, averting disasters and confrontations, lifting up depressed people and bringing shy people out of their shells. And yes, sometimes I do enjoy it, the feeling of being like a conductor of an orchestra full of words that I just have to point at and they marshal into just the right order to create just the atmosphere and meaning I want to convey, and sometimes yes it is ego boosting to have people say how I can always find the right things to say and how I'm the life of the group - is that a crime? ...

You make me really sorry I don't know you in real life.
I think you're awesome.

 

[substitute]

You make me really sorry I don't know you in real life.
I think you're awesome.

Aw shucks...

(gahhh! now everyone's gonna think that was the reaction I was after! )

 

[INTJMom]

Sorry.
I'm sure you weren't.
You're not that shallow.

 

[substitute]

Sorry.
I'm sure you weren't.
You're not that shallow.

And you're not that accommodating and obliging

Heh, no I can be that shallow sometimes, seriously, but I wasn't then. Thank you though, nice to get a bit of extravert appreciation going from you mean ol' intro's!

(though that wasn't my intention either, I didn't have one, honest! lol)

 

[INTJMom]

And you're not that accommodating and obliging

tee-hee that's right!

Heh, no I can be that shallow sometimes,

I know

seriously, but I wasn't then. Thank you though, nice to get a bit of extravert appreciation going from you mean ol' intro's!

(though that wasn't my intention either, I didn't have one, honest! lol)

I know.
Just think of my comments as appreciation for your gift - the same way someone would stand in front of a great painting and be impressed.

I had no idea extraverting was that much work - I mean it is for me, but I didn't know it was for extraverts, too.

 

[cascadeco]

he sounds much more S than N to me. much.

You know, after I posted all of that, I was thinking a bit about it/him, and I also was starting to conclude his behaviors seem a lot more 'S'.

Guess I was just taking my friends' word on it, because she knows a fair amount about mbti, said he's taken the test, and I would assume her husband shows her a lot more of himself than he would to anyone else....which would include his more flaky habits? ;-)

Sorry for the bad example; I tried. Will bow out now!

 

[targobelle]

Alright so I haven't read this thread and I just don't have the patience to read it right now either.

But I have a question in regards to the annoying part of entp's

So entps have the potential to be selfish individuals, they are not known for really wanting what is best for others unless it involves them. Is this something other people find to be true. I mean would an entp subconsciously sabotage a person they cared about simply b/c they weren't getting what they perceived to be their needs met? And would they try and blame their reasoning for why they did it on someone else instead of stopping to look at themselves? I mean is this fair to say?

 

[substitute]

So entps have the potential to be selfish individuals, they are not known for really wanting what is best for others unless it involves them. Is this something other people find to be true. I mean would an entp subconsciously sabotage a person they cared about simply b/c they weren't getting what they perceived to be their needs met? And would they try and blame their reasoning for why they did it on someone else instead of stopping to look at themselves? I mean is this fair to say?

Speaking only for myself, I don't think I have it within me to sabotage someone else, my attention span is too short to be capable of holding grudges. And I do want the best for others, but I don't always feel the need to be instrumental in their obtaining it. However, I do feel it's important not to be obstructive.

I guess I'm a bad example because my religious beliefs and disciplines have beaten a lot of that kind of bad behaviour largely out of me, but even so, I've seen selfishness in all kinds of people, so I wouldn't put it down to type. For instance, the bolded part above is something that immediately puts me in mind of two ENFJ's I know, and my sisters (ESFJ and ESFP) do the same thing too, though I've probably done it in the past without realising it, I can't envisage myself doing it on purpose.

If someone isn't meeting my needs, the last thing I want to do is sabotage them. That just prolongs the association when I'd rather just end it. I'd prefer to move on and find a more promising avenue. My first instincts are to remain neutral, and to look within myself to meet my needs. If I feel someone isn't meeting a need of mine, I ask myself why I expected them to in the first place, and whether in fact I really do need it, and if so, is it realistic to expect it of them, or anyone else, or can I see to it myself? And usually the answer is that they did only what they were bound to do, and I've no reason to be annoyed, except at myself for my unrealistic expectations.

But more realistically, if my needs aren't met, I'm FAR more likely to simply change my needs. That's what I was trying to say here:

even when I haven't been able to get my way (first draft), I've managed to redraft 'my way' sometimes beyond recognition so that what I want to happen always happens, even if sometimes it's more like what happens is always what I want; I want whatever happens. Hm. Rephrase: I can usually find a way to want whatever I know is going to happen, and also to strongly influence what is going to happen.

and which digest backed up here:

ha. yes. deciding that what occurs, even if it wasn't what i wanted, is workable. i think it comes from a tremendously strong natural tendency to adapt... go with the flow.

--------

However, the other ENTP flaw that I wanted to point out, which was the reason why I opened this thread before I got engrossed in responding to targo (lol) was this: we have a very long fuse and tend to brush off an awful lot and let a lot of things go. But, rare as it is, if we do get seriously pissed off, you can expect cosmic debris across many sectors. There are days when I could cheerfully blow up entire solar systems, but failing that, I'll go for the maximum damage I can possibly cause in a single blow, and no need to be hurtful or spiteful when a simple calling of a bluff that's been begging to be called for months can have those chips flying all over the room. The sustained sabotage/manipulation tactics that other people describe here are really not something I can relate to - I get bored of it too quickly and all the planning involved is so not me.

 

[hotmale]

Speaking only for myself, I don't think I have it within me to sabotage someone else, my attention span is too short to be capable of holding grudges. And I do want the best for others, but I don't always feel the need to be instrumental in their obtaining it. However, I do feel it's important not to be obstructive.

I guess I'm a bad example because my religious beliefs and disciplines have beaten a lot of that kind of bad behaviour largely out of me, but even so, I've seen selfishness in all kinds of people, so I wouldn't put it down to type. For instance, the bolded part above is something that immediately puts me in mind of two ENFJ's I know, and my sisters (ESFJ and ESFP) do the same thing too, though I've probably done it in the past without realising it, I can't envisage myself doing it on purpose.

If someone isn't meeting my needs, the last thing I want to do is sabotage them. That just prolongs the association when I'd rather just end it. I'd prefer to move on and find a more promising avenue. My first instincts are to remain neutral, and to look within myself to meet my needs. If I feel someone isn't meeting a need of mine, I ask myself why I expected them to in the first place, and whether in fact I really do need it, and if so, is it realistic to expect it of them, or anyone else, or can I see to it myself? And usually the answer is that they did only what they were bound to do, and I've no reason to be annoyed, except at myself for my unrealistic expectations.

But more realistically, if my needs aren't met, I'm FAR more likely to simply change my needs. That's what I was trying to say here:



and which digest backed up here:



--------

However, the other ENTP flaw that I wanted to point out, which was the reason why I opened this thread before I got engrossed in responding to targo (lol) was this: we have a very long fuse - I get bored of it too quickly and all the planning involved is so not me.

I think ENTPs are passionate about their activities and like to play a little rough, but have never really known one to get angry for a long period of type. I would say that they typically happy folks due to the simple fact that they don't hold grudges.

 

[dblhelix]

They just wont SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!
The less I react to their stupid fucking jokes, the more stupid fucking jokes they make! Get a fucking clue!!!

 

[HeavyMetal]

uhh yep, I totally agree with yours and MacGuffin's points

LOL. yeah.. my little sister is an INTp. when she starts telling me something, I am bound to say it (hey.. from an INTp it's convincing!). later in private she'll tell me that when she tells me stuff to keep it to us two, or that she was only joking. buuut i'll never remember this every time she tells me something cool.

 

[HeavyMetal]

I agree with Q. Your judgment is a bit off, so let me help you.

Good point.

- Unrealistic ideas that are given at an inappropriate time

Chances are that if the idea is unrealistic and at given at the 'wrong' time; that the ENTp is merely joking.

- Tendency to not follow on through projects

ENTjs tend to mistake ENTps brainstorming for actual plans to implement.

- Tendency to get quickly bored

100% true.

- Big risk taker

It's the entrepreneur in me.

- Manipulative in social relationships for personal gain

Hmm. Wrong. ENTps are not manipulative by nature. In fact, ANY type that is unhealthy is most-likely be manipulative for personal gain.

- Big spender

True. I help keep the economy going.

- Unfocused and tendency to have difficulty to concentrate on one thing at a time

True. I have problems focusing on boring or mundane subjects/details. If it's not interesting, chances are it's not worthy of my time.

- Plays devil's advocate and argumentative for the sake of being so

Right now I'm being argumentative both for the sake of being so, and to improve your overall clarity on ETNps. Your reasoning is more than a shade off.

- Does not respect existing lines of command to implement own ideas and bypasses social aspects, disregarding negative consequences from those in power

I'm never susceptible to another's judgment or power.

- Gets bored quickly with romantic partner

True if I don't find them interesting. But wouldn't ANYONE? If my partner is someone I truly care about I never tire of being with them.

- Narcissistic. Sees the world as an audience

SUBMIT!

- One ups people and competitive on task and relational level

If you can't compete, don't get off the porch.

- Obnoxious and rude

My name means noble truth.

- Ignores social conventions for attention

No. I simply do not know how to do things normally.

- Act in eccentric ways to differentiate themselves from others

I am eccentric. I can't help it.. it isn't a show.

- Goes through long "high" and "low" mood phases

I sometimes wonder if it would be fun being BiPolar. (In the manic phase only, of course--THAT would be fun!)

- Jack of all trades, master of none

That makes me master overall, respectively.

 

[substitute]

1.) He read fairly widely, which I can respect, but didn't seem to have any interest in knowledge for reasons outside of showing it off in conversation and otherwise using it for blab-fodder.

Hey, this one's totally unfair and shows no understanding of what Ne is all about. But since I've heard it many times before, let's just clarify and put it to rest, dammit!

If I 'blab' some information I've read in a book, it's not to show off how clever I am, but to see if the other person responds to it with "I know about that, but I've also read that... which could put that in a different light..." etc. Perhaps the other person will say something that will enable you to connect the 'dot' of this piece of knowledge with something the author of the book you read failed to take into account.

And this is what I'm "doing" with the knowledge - not just showing it off!

IOW, books are not the only sources of information and learning, and just because someone's knowledge has been published in a book, doesn't make it worth more, or more conclusive/authorative than anyone else's!! By doing this, I'm not trying to make myself out to be better than someone else - I'm actually showing that I acknowledge that someone else as a fascinating mine of information and am interested in hearing their thoughts/views!

 

[Economica]

Hey, this one's totally unfair and shows no understanding of what Ne is all about. But since I've heard it many times before, let's just clarify and put it to rest, dammit!

If I 'blab' some information I've read in a book, it's not to show off how clever I am

substitute, could it be that some lonely ENTPs actually do show off how clever they are? I've known ENTPs (and INTPs, incidentally) who talked to hear themselves talk and I believe it is because they had been understimulated for so long that they had become disillusioned and started taking what they could get.