User Tag List

First 51314151617 Last

Results 141 to 150 of 203

Thread: Rant on ENTPs

  1. #141
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I said, and accordingly meant nothing about getting the last word in. Also, that's really more of an E thing, if it's even attributed to type.

    Combativeness != insecurity.

    It's really got very little to do with identity, if anything at all. Consciously, it's nothing at all. I just like to fight with people. I generally avoid long-lasting grudges and the like. I much prefer situational arguments but if the other party is willing, so am I.

    It really is a case to case thing and I exaggerated with the thing about never being wrong. Come on...
    No, I got you the first time.

    I do know more than one other ENTP who has a very difficult time being wrong. So it's not as if my assessment of the type is entirely flawed. Hardheadedness is in the build.
    I know one also, but he's usually the first to admit he was wrong about something, especially if he gets booted out by security during a concert when he knew he was acting a little too rowdy.

  2. #142
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Hey, crap!

    I have all these problems too! Moreso then the ENFP ones!

    Whatevs. You can't take my fluffy away.
    I was starting to think you might be ENTP before you posted this. Not that it really means much though. ENTP's and ENFP's are pretty similar and it's not like I can really type a person accurately through online communication.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  3. #143
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Not to rain on anyone's ENTP parade ...
    Okay, I have been thinking about this. Sometimes I find hyperactive Ne can join dots that don't really belong joined, but once the connection's been made, if we don't realise in time that the connection's false, then we'll soon find all the faulty conclusions being drawn from it tumbling out pêlle-mêlle. For me it's usually a case of "Connecting dot X with dot 3.24, the logical conclusion is..." and the conclusion would be logical if X and 3.24 were actually related in the way I perceived them to be - but they're not, so my conclusion is illogical.

    With my ENFP brother, he does the same perception thing, but then rather than believe he has a logical conclusion/hypothesis, he instead has an emotional reaction (I don't mean a hysterical or hostile reaction, necessarily, it could be a good one or any other kind) which he believes justified, leading to a value judgement on the person/thing that the dots 'belong' to. If you catch my drift. I think Cze Cze that you might've done this here.

    I think you might here be falsely connecting some of the 'dots' in the two different, but overlapping situations of digest's defence against hotmale and later Maverick, and mine and Laser's general observations inspired by, but not entirely or exclusively about, digest's situation.

    What digest was talking about when she said about saying in a laid back tone, 'blow it out your ass', was that it was a response to this sort of thing:

    Stranger: Well, why should I listen to the opinion of someone who encourages people not to take their library books back on time?
    X: Hey, that's not true, I didn't mean that, I meant this...
    Stranger: No you didn't, I know what you meant
    X: Dude, I know what I meant better than you, c'mon...
    Stranger: No you don't, and your reaction only validates my initial judgement
    X: WTF? Ah, blow it out your ass!
    Stranger: See? You're hostile and defensive and blah blah blah
    X: whatever

    Now, I don't think anyone was suggesting that the Stranger isn't within their rights to continue misunderstanding X, or to be offended by X's reaction - anyone has a right to feel anything they feel, there's no question of rights when it comes to feelings, we all just feel what we feel and have to deal with it, that's the whole deal with feelings, we don't feel to order, we just feel. Any onlooker is also within their rights to make their own judgements about the Stranger and X, and who's right and who's wrong.

    But whatever the case, if we take it on trust that X didn't in fact mean what the Stranger accused them of meaning, then we also have to consider that X had every right to decide whether to defend herself or whether to just figure 'Meh, he's not listening and what do I care what he thinks anyway?'

    Now, they could all be wrong - say the Stranger was wrong about X, and then X was wrong about whether or not the Stranger was willing to listen or sort things out. But now they've put each other's hackles up a bit, so further discussion is more likely to degenerate into insults/wisecracks etc.

    What you seem to be suggesting is that it's X's fault that the Stranger ended up offended by being told to blow it out his ass. But in fact, the Stranger set himself up to be offended when he made a rash statement about X. Perhaps X didn't communicate effectively to start with, in which case the Stranger was bound to draw the wrong conclusions. It could also be said that, having been provoked to what could be fairly justifiable anger, X deserves a bit of kudos for staying calm and only giving a vaguely insolent/dismissive response when someone else might well have scratched the Stranger's eyes out.

    But basically, you can keep on back-engineering situations like this until the cows come home, and every step along the way you can usually find that neither party was completely in the right or completely in the wrong. But the point is that digest was annoyed about being judged for something she's not, by someone who doesn't know her, and not just simply for being judged. I'd offer here my own opinion, which is that I personally can handle people being offended by me, or objecting to me and I'll take it in my stride and listen to them respectfully if they demonstrate that they have indeed grasped what I was really doing/meaning, and are objecting to it - as opposed to ranting about what they think I meant, and then refusing to believe me when I try to clarify the misunderstanding.

    It's like I said in another thread - I'd rather be hated for what I am, than liked for what I'm not. But worse than anything is being hated for what I'm not!

    But as for the other situation, where Laser and I came in and made observations about more general things, which digest related with, that was different. We weren't saying that we go around making insolent and insulting replies to people all the time and expecting to get away with it, even when unprovoked. We were talking more about this kind of thing, which could be considered fairly stereotypical T style friendly banter - I use an example of me and my ISTP buddy earlier today:

    ISTP: Hey, you didn't put sugar in my coffee, you useless moron
    Me: Put your own sugar in, dickweed
    ISTP: Fuck you man
    Me: And your mother!
    ISTP: Did you see the Simpsons movie yet?
    Me: No, I was meaning to go on Sunday with the kids
    ISTP: Can I come?
    Me: Sure.

    The 'insults' are made instantly innocuous because of the external, physical cues, which are lost in text. ISTP wasn't in the slightest bit bothered by what I said, and neither was I by him calling me a useless moron. It was clear that a close friend of mine of many years wouldn't suddenly have decided I was a useless moron based solely on the fact that I forgot to put sugar in his coffee. To be offended would be absurd. The mutual non-taking of offence is visible in the whole thing being immediately forgotten, amid plans to go to a movie together.

    I have known some people who are unable to take such humour without feeling insulted. For example, if my brother had been in my position, though he would've responded externally in a similar way to me, he would no doubt have been thinking to himself 'Does he really think I'm a useless moron or is he just messing about? It's not very nice to say it anyway, even if he doesn't mean it, but because of the way he said it I can't be sure whether he really was kidding or whether he was using humour to get away with saying something he does really think...' etc etc, which is why I would usually tone down this sort of thing around him.

    However, regardless of how sensitive someone is, or what their humour style is (and here's the overlap), I reserve the right to respond to an unfair comment to me with my own caustic humour to avoid giving way to anger if I want to, and if the person I say it to doesn't like it, then I don't see the fact that I've now offended them as any kind of evidence that I'm in need of reproval.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  4. #144
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Xander has recently pegged me as an ENTP. I asked him to make some critical or less than flattering comments, but he decided to make a very bad joke instead. This thread has been enlightening...
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  5. #145
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    eNFJ
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/so
    Socionics
    eNFJ Ni
    Posts
    11,443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post

    I do know more than one other ENTP who has a very difficult time being wrong. So it's not as if my assessment of the type is entirely flawed. Hardheadedness is in the build.
    Some of the hardest combat I've ever pulled was against an ENTP. Minds like f-in' steel traps. I was nose to nose with this one guy from the word GO (again, I don't recommend being a female mechanic. To anyone. Ever.) because he'd marked me out as a good sharpening device. Love-hate. He loved me to pieces, but it was hard love.

    Conversely, I had another ENTP friend, a punk I used to hang with (and still do) who introduced himself to me by pushing his way through a door I was holding and shoving his hand into my cereal box while declaring his name and smiling brightly. He's both rude and extremely sweet and is always checking up on me, and I'd do anything for him.

    And yes, the pairing of laconic delivery with stunning abrupt causticness can be quite a breathtaking experience. I think it has everything to do with maturity, just as it does for any type.

    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    I know one also, but he's usually the first to admit he was wrong about something, especially if he gets booted out by security during a concert when he knew he was acting a little too rowdy.

    Too funny!


    [And for the record: anyone who likes to FIGHT with people is just looking for trouble. Debating is fine. Respectfully disagreeing is fine. Even a little shouting for clarification's sake is fine. But instigating is childish.]

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    ISTP: Hey, you didn't put sugar in my coffee, you useless moron
    Me: Put your own sugar in, dickweed
    ISTP: Fuck you man
    Me: And your mother!
    ISTP: Did you see the Simpsons movie yet?
    Me: No, I was meaning to go on Sunday with the kids
    ISTP: Can I come?
    Me: Sure.

    ROFL!!!
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 11-09-2007 at 06:49 PM. Reason: merged posts
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  6. #146
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,516

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    No, I got you the first time.



    I know one also, but he's usually the first to admit he was wrong about something, especially if he gets booted out by security during a concert when he knew he was acting a little too rowdy.
    Well I suppose I should clarify. I won't let anyone ELSE tell me I'm wrong. I'm more comfortable correcting myself than letting someone else do it.

  7. #147
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,262

    Default

    nocapszy, you're imagining my having a problem with you. i just really don't understand a lot of your posts, and that confuses me a lot considering you say you're an ENTP. i've always at least mostly 'gotten' them when i've come into contact with them. you just happen to say a ton of shit that i can't relate to personally, but that doesn't mean i have a problem with you personally. okay?

    put simply, it's just that you're version of ENTP doesn't mesh with mine, and being that i'm obsessed with truth (not saying you lie, just that i like to separate myself from what's different about us, since you say you're an ENTP), so i do comment from time to time in order to show present and future readers the difference between us. it's just a clarity thing.
    ✻ღϠ₡ღ✻
    (¯`✻´¯)
    `*.¸.*'ღϠ₡ღஇڿڰۣ
    •.¸¸. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒჱܓ. இڿڰۣ.¸¸.இڿڰۣ´¯`·.─♥


    Cerebral Artery
    http://www.facebook.com/CerebralArtery

  8. #148
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,262

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Okay, I have been thinking about this. Sometimes I find hyperactive Ne can join dots that don't really belong joined, but once the connection's been made, if we don't realise in time that the connection's false, then we'll soon find all the faulty conclusions being drawn from it tumbling out pêlle-mêlle. For me it's usually a case of "Connecting dot X with dot 3.24, the logical conclusion is..." and the conclusion would be logical if X and 3.24 were actually related in the way I perceived them to be - but they're not, so my conclusion is illogical.

    With my ENFP brother, he does the same perception thing, but then rather than believe he has a logical conclusion/hypothesis, he instead has an emotional reaction (I don't mean a hysterical or hostile reaction, necessarily, it could be a good one or any other kind) which he believes justified, leading to a value judgement on the person/thing that the dots 'belong' to. If you catch my drift. I think Cze Cze that you might've done this here.

    I think you might here be falsely connecting some of the 'dots' in the two different, but overlapping situations of digest's defence against hotmale and later Maverick, and mine and Laser's general observations inspired by, but not entirely or exclusively about, digest's situation.

    What digest was talking about when she said about saying in a laid back tone, 'blow it out your ass', was that it was a response to this sort of thing:

    Stranger: Well, why should I listen to the opinion of someone who encourages people not to take their library books back on time?
    X: Hey, that's not true, I didn't mean that, I meant this...
    Stranger: No you didn't, I know what you meant
    X: Dude, I know what I meant better than you, c'mon...
    Stranger: No you don't, and your reaction only validates my initial judgement
    X: WTF? Ah, blow it out your ass!
    Stranger: See? You're hostile and defensive and blah blah blah
    X: whatever

    Now, I don't think anyone was suggesting that the Stranger isn't within their rights to continue misunderstanding X, or to be offended by X's reaction - anyone has a right to feel anything they feel, there's no question of rights when it comes to feelings, we all just feel what we feel and have to deal with it, that's the whole deal with feelings, we don't feel to order, we just feel. Any onlooker is also within their rights to make their own judgements about the Stranger and X, and who's right and who's wrong.

    But whatever the case, if we take it on trust that X didn't in fact mean what the Stranger accused them of meaning, then we also have to consider that X had every right to decide whether to defend herself or whether to just figure 'Meh, he's not listening and what do I care what he thinks anyway?'

    Now, they could all be wrong - say the Stranger was wrong about X, and then X was wrong about whether or not the Stranger was willing to listen or sort things out. But now they've put each other's hackles up a bit, so further discussion is more likely to degenerate into insults/wisecracks etc.

    What you seem to be suggesting is that it's X's fault that the Stranger ended up offended by being told to blow it out his ass. But in fact, the Stranger set himself up to be offended when he made a rash statement about X. Perhaps X didn't communicate effectively to start with, in which case the Stranger was bound to draw the wrong conclusions. It could also be said that, having been provoked to what could be fairly justifiable anger, X deserves a bit of kudos for staying calm and only giving a vaguely insolent/dismissive response when someone else might well have scratched the Stranger's eyes out.

    But basically, you can keep on back-engineering situations like this until the cows come home, and every step along the way you can usually find that neither party was completely in the right or completely in the wrong. But the point is that digest was annoyed about being judged for something she's not, by someone who doesn't know her, and not just simply for being judged. I'd offer here my own opinion, which is that I personally can handle people being offended by me, or objecting to me and I'll take it in my stride and listen to them respectfully if they demonstrate that they have indeed grasped what I was really doing/meaning, and are objecting to it - as opposed to ranting about what they think I meant, and then refusing to believe me when I try to clarify the misunderstanding.

    It's like I said in another thread - I'd rather be hated for what I am, than liked for what I'm not. But worse than anything is being hated for what I'm not!

    But as for the other situation, where Laser and I came in and made observations about more general things, which digest related with, that was different. We weren't saying that we go around making insolent and insulting replies to people all the time and expecting to get away with it, even when unprovoked. We were talking more about this kind of thing, which could be considered fairly stereotypical T style friendly banter - I use an example of me and my ISTP buddy earlier today:

    ISTP: Hey, you didn't put sugar in my coffee, you useless moron
    Me: Put your own sugar in, dickweed
    ISTP: Fuck you man
    Me: And your mother!
    ISTP: Did you see the Simpsons movie yet?
    Me: No, I was meaning to go on Sunday with the kids
    ISTP: Can I come?
    Me: Sure.

    The 'insults' are made instantly innocuous because of the external, physical cues, which are lost in text. ISTP wasn't in the slightest bit bothered by what I said, and neither was I by him calling me a useless moron. It was clear that a close friend of mine of many years wouldn't suddenly have decided I was a useless moron based solely on the fact that I forgot to put sugar in his coffee. To be offended would be absurd. The mutual non-taking of offence is visible in the whole thing being immediately forgotten, amid plans to go to a movie together.

    I have known some people who are unable to take such humour without feeling insulted. For example, if my brother had been in my position, though he would've responded externally in a similar way to me, he would no doubt have been thinking to himself 'Does he really think I'm a useless moron or is he just messing about? It's not very nice to say it anyway, even if he doesn't mean it, but because of the way he said it I can't be sure whether he really was kidding or whether he was using humour to get away with saying something he does really think...' etc etc, which is why I would usually tone down this sort of thing around him.

    However, regardless of how sensitive someone is, or what their humour style is (and here's the overlap), I reserve the right to respond to an unfair comment to me with my own caustic humour to avoid giving way to anger if I want to, and if the person I say it to doesn't like it, then I don't see the fact that I've now offended them as any kind of evidence that I'm in need of reproval.
    extremely well said. here's an example, nocapszy, of how i agree with 90% of the perception and viewpoint of another person saying they're ENTP. how i relate to them very well.

    it's not you, it's the difference and need to clarify.
    ✻ღϠ₡ღ✻
    (¯`✻´¯)
    `*.¸.*'ღϠ₡ღஇڿڰۣ
    •.¸¸. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒჱܓ. இڿڰۣ.¸¸.இڿڰۣ´¯`·.─♥


    Cerebral Artery
    http://www.facebook.com/CerebralArtery

  9. #149
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,516

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    extremely well said. here's an example, nocapszy, of how i agree with 90% of the perception and viewpoint of another person saying they're ENTP. how i relate to them very well.

    it's not you, it's the difference and need to clarify.
    Fair enough. I suppose I should have overlooked the quip about my comical failure.

    At any rate, I spent some more time thinking and I realized what I described was just a form of oneupsmanship. After you said you didn't identify with it, I started watching myself. Here's what I left out.

    I only belittle people who've "wronged" me in some way whether by beating me in some stupid game or outsmarting me.

    Clarity is a terrific thing and good thing you said that or I wouldn't have bothered to figure this out. I think we're on the same page I'm just a little more overt about it.

    I do think I overstated with most of my post.

  10. #150
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    digesthisickness...you didn't put sugar in my coffee, you useless moron.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENTJ] Rant on ENTJs
    By Maverick in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 12-29-2010, 02:50 PM
  2. [MBTItm] short rant on NFs
    By sakuraba in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 227
    Last Post: 11-29-2008, 10:38 PM
  3. A short rant on chivalry
    By Sniffles in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 10-24-2008, 09:37 PM
  4. [INTJ] Rant on INTJs
    By Usehername in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 04-28-2008, 04:28 PM
  5. [INTP] Rant on INTPs
    By ygolo in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 230
    Last Post: 04-11-2008, 11:12 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO