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Thread: Rant on ENTPs

  1. #111
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    I find them very intense and thoughtful. Why did you push your mother towards ISFPs out of curiosity? What sort of types were she dating previously?
    My sister and I just knew they fit with her. My mom is a very funny, dutiful, but oddly shy person, and ISFPs are the perfect counterpoint. Have you ever watched Ed Begley and his wife Rachelle interact? She's an ESTJ and she's hilarious, dedicated, insubordinate, but supportive. The ISFP brings out every ESTJ's internal demolition derby driver that might otherwise be surpressed, and the ESTJ helps to ground and focus the ISFP's willy-nilly-ness.

    I've never set my mother up on a date, but then again, we never really saw eye to eye on relationship matters.
    Ha, well, me and my DNA clone push on the old lady to keep her circulation up! ha ha! Keeps her spry! She grouses but she likes it!
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  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    What sort of types were she dating previously?
    My parents aren't allowed to pick ANYONE anymore. They've messed up repeatedly. My own father is an INFJ and all my mother can say to that pairing was "brain madness". He himself keeps picking extroverted S-function women which invariably ends in disaster. I'm not saying S's and N's can't be happy together, but overall, I'd say there's a key component on the most primal-intimate level that one or both parties in the relationship wind up missing out on, and that's not fair to either one. My father wants to continue to be a mystery, I guess. I have no patience for that.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  3. #113
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    Well no need to get touchy and defensive digest. I was just throwing out some ideas out there, and you didn't have to take it as a personal attack. I'm just curious about your personality type is all.
    i'm not being touchy (but even if i were, thanks for telling me how i shouldn't react). actually, i'm almost too easygoing. however, you just happened to stumble upon one of my few buttons, and then push it. i'm just not the type to allow someone else to tell me who i am, what i think, what i feel, where i'm coming from, etc. based upon what they themselves think without my saying something in return.

    try to understand that autonomy is huge on an NTs list of values. i not only fiercely defend my own, but i'll do the same for anyone else as well if i deem it necessary. while i'm not effected in the least by what others think of me, that's their own issue, (unless of course, i value the person), i do not like to be told who i am by someone (even a valued person) who is not me thus is speaking out of their ass. it feels like confinement. it feels like a jail, and i can't stand it or (and especially) the nerve it takes for someone to approach me with it. particularly while saying i should care and listen to them whether or not they're right.

    i don't think anyone, not just me, should have to put up with that.

    if you're really curious about my type, or anyone's type, or type in general, then in order to actually learn based on facts, you need to trust that others, not you, know themselves better than you do. from there, you can observe, ask questions (without accusing or 'tossing out' your ungrounded opinions), and actually gain true knowledge. start not with a basis of your own, but with the assumption that the other person is not you thus different, then simply ask/observe/etc., trust those answers are more correct than your assumptions, and analyze your findings from there.

    It's interesting you say you self-analyzed yourself since birth. It indicates that you are what you personally analyze which it typical of introverts. However, given that your personality type is accurate of you (and remember I'm just a newbie to the MBTI theory ) I would think you would want to integrate other people's analyses as well.
    this is a good example of what i mean. you saying "it indicates" as if it really does. it doesn't at all. the only thing it indicates is that you think it indicates something. that's it. read more about MBTI, and you'll see that introverts aren't the only type that self-analyze. i analyze by nature. EVERYTHING. including me.

    i'm not sure where you get that i should need other's opinions in order to analyze myself. i don't. i do gather information by default based on reactions, patterns, etc., but i don't necessarily believe they're correct. i keep everything in mind if it meshes with reality and where they're coming from (like i'm doing with you).

    i'd never know who i am if i believed everything others think of me. haha! that's crazy talk. everyone sees me differently!

    Oh well, we're all so different aren't we?
    yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    You're good, gal, you're good. *slings an arm around you* I'd know an ENTP if I were blind in one eye and deaf in both ears.
    i don't know what i did, but thanks.
    Last edited by digesthisickness; 11-07-2007 at 11:56 PM. Reason: spelling, yay
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  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    My parents aren't allowed to pick ANYONE anymore. They've messed up repeatedly. My own father is an INFJ and all my mother can say to that pairing was "brain madness". He himself keeps picking extroverted S-function women which invariably ends in disaster. I'm not saying S's and N's can't be happy together, but overall, I'd say there's a key component on the most primal-intimate level that one or both parties in the relationship wind up missing out on, and that's not fair to either one. My father wants to continue to be a mystery, I guess. I have no patience for that.
    I'm not certain if Ss and Ns can't be happy together. I can see however if there was something entirely lacking in their relationship with each other then that would translate as chronic dissatisfaction. I think thought that long-term attraction is quite different from initial immediate attraction. Perhaps the qualities that immediately attract us on a subliminal level are the ones that end up breaking people apart. I'm pretty satisfied with my ENTP girlfriend however. For the first time, I didn't think I was "rescuing" a woman necessarily- I was one with her.

    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    i'm not being touchy (but even if i were, thanks for telling me how i shouldn't react). actually, i'm almost too easygoing. however, you just happened to stumble upon one of my few buttons, and then push it. i'm just not the type to allow someone else to tell me who i am, what i think, what i feel, where i'm coming from, etc. based upon what they themselves think without my saying something in return.

    try to understand that autonomy is huge on an NTs list of values. i not only fiercely defend my own, but i'll do the same for anyone else as well if i deem it necessary. while i'm not effected in the least by what others think of me, that's their own issue, (unless of course, i value the person), i do not like to be told who i am by someone (even a valued person) who is not me thus is speaking out of their ass. it feels like confinement. it feels like a jail, and i can't stand it or (and especially) the nerve it takes for someone to approach me with it. particularly while saying i should care and listen to them whether or not they're right.

    i don't think anyone, not just me, should have to put up with that.

    if you're really curious about my type, or anyone's type, or type in general, then in order to actually learn based on facts, you need to trust that others, not you, know themselves better than you do. from there, you can observe, ask questions (without accusing or 'tossing out' your ungrounded opinions), and actually gain true knowledge. start not with a basis of your own, but with the assumption that the other person is not you thus different, then simply ask/observe/etc., trust those answers are more correct than your assumptions, and analyze your findings from there.



    this is a good example of what i mean. you saying "it indicates" as if it really does. it doesn't at all. the only thing it indicates is that you think it indicates something. that's it. read more about MBTI, and you'll see that introverts aren't the only type that self-analyze. i analyze by nature. EVERYTHING. including me.

    i'm not sure where you get that i should need other's opinions in order to analyze myself. i don't. i do gather information by default based on reactions, patterns, etc., but i don't necessarily believe they're correct. i keep everything in mind if it meshes with reality and where they're coming from (like i'm doing with you).

    i'd never know who i am if i believed everything others think of me. haha! that's crazy talk. everyone sees me differently!
    Indeed, you seem very easygoing, digest!

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    Indeed, you seem very easygoing, digest!
    thanks for reading what i took a lot of time to write just to point out one irrelevant comment to not only misinterpret but also once again imply that you know me better than i do.

    this is what i get for trying to explain, why i very rarely bother anymore with explaining myself, and exactly why i first replied to you the way i did.
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  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    thanks for reading what i took the time to write just to point out one irrelevant comment to not only misinterpret but also once again imply that you know me better than i do.

    this is what i get for trying to explain, why i very rarely bother anymore with explaining myself, and exactly why i first replied to you the way i did.
    FWIW, though I personally don't tend to get much gip from ESTJ's, I often get exactly this kinda treatment from my ESFJ mother...

    She'll say something completely outrageously unfair to me, and then when I try to object, she'll brush aside and dismiss everything I say as me just getting 'het up over nothing', so then when I actually do get mad, and start to explain why, she'll just say she's not listening to me until I can calm down and talk like a rational human being!

    This is why my stress-o-meter goes through the roof when she comes to visit...
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  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    FWIW, though I personally don't tend to get much gip from ESTJ's, I often get exactly this kinda treatment from my ESFJ mother...

    She'll say something completely outrageously unfair to me, and then when I try to object, she'll brush aside and dismiss everything I say as me just getting 'het up over nothing', so then when I actually do get mad, and start to explain why, she'll just say she's not listening to me until I can calm down and talk like a rational human being!

    This is why my stress-o-meter goes through the roof when she comes to visit...
    *nods*

    oh, believe me, i feel your pain. this shit is exactly why when people pull this crap, i'm much less likely to bother explaining, and much more likely to just go ahead and get to the inevitable ending by saying, "blow it out your ass".

    it's a hell of a lot less stressful that way.
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  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    try to understand that autonomy is huge on an NTs list of values. i not only fiercely defend my own, but i'll do the same for anyone else as well if i deem it necessary. while i'm not effected in the least by what others think of me, that's their own issue, (unless of course, i value the person), i do not like to be told who i am by someone (even a valued person) who is not me thus is speaking out of their ass. it feels like confinement. it feels like a jail, and i can't stand it or (and especially) the nerve it takes for someone to approach me with it. particularly while saying i should care and listen to them whether or not they're right.
    You're just contradicting yourself. One one hand you say you value autonomy and that you do not care about what others think, on the other your post shows that you are getting all worked up about this issue and that you do care.

    If you are sure of your ground, why don't you just brush off comments? You sound overly defensive.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    You're just contradicting yourself. One one hand you say you value autonomy and that you do not care about what others think, on the other your post shows that you are getting all worked up about this issue and that you do care.

    If you are sure of your ground, why don't you just brush off comments? You sound overly defensive.
    I don't think she does at all... I can imagine her saying all of that with a quite calm voice - it's the kind of thing I'd just say deadpan too, in a casual way, sorta 'FYI', while barely looking up from my newspaper.

    I think some people might mistake it for getting het up though in text form because the terms are quite certain and strong, but like I say, I think that's just a way NT's often talk without necessarily any actual emotion in it. Sometimes it's a sort of objective frustration/emotion, if that's not too much of a paradox to suggest... I often find myself in a situation where I'm looking from a few steps back at what's going on between me and the other person and seeing there an example or symptom of a wider problem that happens in other ways with other people, and I decide to see if I can do something to rectify it by sorta 'starting here'. I'm not directly concerned about me and this person's opinion of me personally right now, more the larger issue. But that's something that's perhaps not a particularly orthodox way of operating, so it doesn't tend to occur to other people that it's what I might be doing, when the more 'obvious' explanation is that I'm getting het up and personally involved and defensive etc.
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  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    You're just contradicting yourself. One one hand you say you value autonomy and that you do not care about what others think, on the other your post makes it seem as if you are getting all worked up about this issue.

    If you are sure of your ground, why don't you just brush off comments? You sound overly defensive, which suggests lack of self-confidence.
    no, i'm not contradicting myself, and i am sure of my ground.

    one, i did attempt to brush it off at first, and that was called defensive and unENTPlike. which led to two, while i don't care what others think about me, i DO care about truth. so, i was attempting to straighten out a type confusion. the fact that i'm the one whose type is being challenged is why i'm using myself as an example.

    and, now i'm put in a position to where i either answer you and try to explain my reasoning and be misinterpreted by yet another asshole... this time as having low self-confidence, or ignore you to what, just prove to you that i do have self-confidence by brushing off your comment?

    blow it out your ass.
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