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  1. #31
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I think this is true. And I think I can definitely benefit from getting in touch with feelings. Or better yet, allowing myself to be controlled or washed over by them every once in a while.

    But it's not exactly what I was getting at. I wasn't talking about Fe in terms of getting in touch with emotions, but more like knowing what's best for society. Knowing protocol and the "right" way to be. ENTP women here are forced to be aware of all of these things and despise the "rules" quietly. ENTP men, it seems, aren't even aware of the social rules to a degree. When they reach a level where they start to pay attention to the rules and to the feelings of others, they go crazy with it, becoming bossy and dogmatic. But this is a weak theory based on limited observation. I don't know. You can tell me when you reach 35.
    It's a scary subject though. What is really the "right" way?

    I tend to test and analyse what a certain situation means, or may mean, to a certain person. And then adjust myself to that if I want to 'connect'.

    I'm giving this much thought actually, because I'm not sure what is more important. Ti mimicking Fe in a controlled, responsible and mature fashion. Or letting loose Fe, which scares the crap out of me. I think if I give in to Fe in negative situations, people will get hurt. Although, it may be cute in positive situations. It would most likely still not have the desired outcome however.

    I may be a bit of a control freak on this matter, but I'm extremely happy with that.

    I think my view on the world fits your arguement of "Dogmatic" by the way.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #32
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I think this is true. And I think I can definitely benefit from getting in touch with feelings. Or better yet, allowing myself to be controlled or washed over by them every once in a while.

    But it's not exactly what I was getting at. I wasn't talking about Fe in terms of getting in touch with emotions, but more like knowing what's best for society. Knowing protocol and the "right" way to be. ENTP women here are forced to be aware of all of these things and despise the "rules" quietly. ENTP men, it seems, aren't even aware of the social rules to a degree. When they reach a level where they start to pay attention to the rules and to the feelings of others, they go crazy with it, becoming bossy and dogmatic. But this is a weak theory based on limited observation. I don't know. You can tell me when you reach 35.
    Ah ok I got you. That's intresting and I think I know what you mean. The first year I came to university I met a very nice guy, who I would type entp now and we had that special connection. We had the same humor and found equal things intresting. He though was the freak of the whole class and I was more like your atypical normal guy, who is polite and relieable. Other people told me they dont understand, why I hang out with that guy but I never really gave it a thought.

    That's a thing that happened to me like all my life. If you think back to High School where there was a lot of groups forming, ranging from the sporty guys to the nerdy guys, I was like a jack-of-all-trades. I knew everywhere always some people. My NF sometimes thinks I am crazy, if we walk thro my hometown together and I greet like at least 15 people.

    But and thats the intresting thing, I didnt wear a mask or adapted to the groups. The sporty arrogant guys for example were all asses. I never liked them, I only liked one guy and him I got to know singled-out from the others and without prejudice.

    Its something like a natural charm, hell I even led a CounterStrike clan made out of 40 people and was called Clan Daddy.

    And now comes the intresting part: there was one guy, an intp I think nowadays, who grew very close to me. This was my only real and close friendship I ever had in life. At some point tho around the age of 18, he constantly sought-after my advice on how to find a woman. And even if I myself hadnt had a clue how to do that, I became very bossy and dogmatic around him, what led to the point that I ruined our friendship. One day he left and never came back and I needed some years to understand that.

    If I reflect on that now 7 years later, with the things you said above, it all starts to click for me, finally. I have to admit even 7 years later I cant say for sure, why he left me, but in face of the discussion going on here, I think I get it.

    Since that day, I have changed. First I have lost my confidence and blocked people out of my lives, because I didnt want to hurt anyone again. Now I still block people out of my feeling realm but when I meet new people and they ask me a thing I dont know, I dont reply with something I made up in my mind to come off bossy, dogmatic or self-confident. I admit, if I dont know something and I was baffled, the first time I did that that the reception of people is even more nicer than if I make some answers up.

    What I still tho do and I have to admit that, is when it comes down to me opening up and talking about my personal feelings out of the heart, I become bossy and dogmatic. Cause I can be very naive and be easily talked into something and therefore I really have to be that way to protect myself. Given the fact that I dont wear a mask in this forum, it can absolutely be true that I do come off bossy, preachy or dogmatic here from time to time.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #33
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    It's a scary subject though. What is really the "right" way?

    I tend to test and analyse what a certain situation means, or may mean, to a certain person. And then adjust myself to that if I want to 'connect'.

    I'm giving this much thought actually, because I'm not sure what is more important. Ti mimicking Fe in a controlled, responsible and mature fashion. Or letting loose Fe, which scares the crap out of me. I think if I give in to Fe in negative situations, people will get hurt. Although, it may be cute in positive situations. It would most likely still not have the desired outcome however.

    I may be a bit of a control freak on this matter, but I'm extremely happy with that.

    I think my view on the world fits your arguement of "Dogmatic" by the way.
    You sound like how I was. I mimicked Fe for the longest time. Observing, analyzing and then behaving in the way others would expect or appreciate. But I never felt it. I did it to gain leverage and acceptance, which is more manipulative than the actual Fe itself.

    Now, I actually get it. Of course, the rules change with the society you are in, but I genuinely don't want to hurt someone's feelings or make them feel stupid or whatever. I always make it a point when learning a language, to also learn their value system (not just the "rules") because I want to understand what people hold dear. I sincerely don't want to offend people, it's not mimicking anymore. But of course, it's not the first thing that I think about and the truth is still more important than someone's feelings, but lately I do try to take feelings into consideration while being truthful.

  4. #34
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Ah ok I got you. That's intresting and I think I know what you mean. The first year I came to university I met a very nice guy, who I would type entp now and we had that special connection. We had the same humor and found equal things intresting. He though was the freak of the whole class and I was more like your atypical normal guy, who is polite and relieable. Other people told me they dont understand, why I hang out with that guy but I never really gave it a thought.
    Sorry, I have to laugh at "clan daddy". That is priceless!!!

    Yes, and what you are describing is more what I am talking about. I'm sorry that you had to go through that with your friend though, in order to learn this lesson.

    I find that the male ENTPs I encounter tend to tell me what is right and wrong way more than I feel comfortable with. Synarch and I are of such a similar minds that it scares me sometimes, but then he'll say something and *poof*... I can't even be in the conversation with him anymore. I literally am so shocked that I have to tell him I can no longer speak with him. Of course he makes fun of me and calls me dramatic, and we laugh and move on. But the fact is what it is. The dogma. The nonacceptance of different perspectives, feelings or viewpoints. And it always makes me wonder if he's trying to convince me, or to convince himself.

  5. #35
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I think the main problem is that Fe and dominant Ti just doesn't work. They're complete opposites. If I let my Fe go, I'd be no different than someone with MPD. A completely different person. :P

    I don't see a way to use Fe as to compliment my already existing self.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  6. #36
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    If type theory is correct for children, and ENTPs and ENFPs stem from the same place, you'd think ENTPs would have an easier developing their (already present?) Fi, no? The number of NeXis (people with high Ne Fi and Ti) seems like no coincidence.

    Not trying to make a point, just a random thought.

  7. #37
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Sorry, I have to laugh at "clan daddy". That is priceless!!!

    Yes, and what you are describing is more what I am talking about. I'm sorry that you had to go through that with your friend though, in order to learn this lesson.

    I find that the male ENTPs I encounter tend to tell me what is right and wrong way more than I feel comfortable with. Synarch and I are of such a similar minds that it scares me sometimes, but then he'll say something and *poof*... I can't even be in the conversation with him anymore. I literally am so shocked that I have to tell him I can no longer speak with him. Of course he makes fun of me and calls me dramatic, and we laugh and move on. But the fact is what it is. The dogma. The nonacceptance of different perspectives, feelings or viewpoints. And it always makes me wonder if he's trying to convince me, or to convince himself.
    Ok fair enough. I dont expect to believe me now, when I say I am feeling you. But it's exactly why I open up my ranting threads in this forum, out of an equal feeling.

    I am gonna have a Scotch now, my head is aching. Who is with me ?

    This one's for you jeno

    Eine bedeutsame Fliege zog eine Runde über ihren nackten Körper und sah sie aus über tausend verschiedenen Sichtweisen, einer Gabe, die die Menschheit verrückt werden ließe. Langsam näherte sie sich summend ihrem Gesicht und setzte sich auf ihre leuchtenden blauen Augen, stieß ihren Rüssel in die Pupille und trank das eiweißhaltige Sekret. Sie nahm davon keine Notiz mehr.
    entropie 2003
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #38
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I think the main problem is that Fe and dominant Ti just doesn't work. They're complete opposites. If I let my Fe go, I'd be no different than someone with MPD. A completely different person. :P

    I don't see a way to use Fe as to compliment my already existing self.
    We are having this same discussion in an ENFJ thread right now. How Ti and Fe don't work hand in hand. I'm still thinking about this one. I'll get back to you when I make more sense of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    If type theory is correct for children, and ENTPs and ENFPs stem from the same place, you'd think ENTPs would have an easier developing their (already present?) Fi, no? The number of NeXis (people with high Ne Fi and Ti) seems like no coincidence.

    Not trying to make a point, just a random thought.
    I hear what you are saying, but the point is that it's not easy, or they would have chosen Fi instead of Ti as a preference.

  9. #39
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Ok fair enough. I dont expect to believe me now, when I say I am feeling you. But it's exactly why I open up my ranting threads in this forum, out of an equal feeling.

    I am gonna have a Scotch now, my head is aching. Who is with me ?
    I'm right there with ya buddy. Been drinking my Maccallen for about 11 hours now and will continue for the next 13. Prost!!!


    EDIT: hahaha, meine Augen sind braun!

  10. #40
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    We are having this same discussion in an ENFJ thread right now. How Ti and Fe don't work hand in hand. I'm still thinking about this one. I'll get back to you when I make more sense of it.
    I'm still mostly brain storming about this as well. Haven't reached a conclusion yet either.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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