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[INTJ] are INTJ perfectionists?

niki

New member
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
210
MBTI Type
INFP
are they?

here's a quote from my INTJ cousin's personal Blog, who recently just got very frustrated & mad with his workplace for not being as perfect as he wants to be , and because the office staff often make small-little mistakes that he just CAN'T tolerate! (even including MY small-little mistake! ouch!)

"The Curse of a Perfectionist
A perfectionist is a poor creature. The perfectionist wants everything to be perfect in this ever imperfect world. He/she spends countless effort to make things perfect, and is furious when something is not to his/her meticulously thought of design.

The perfectionist spends most of his/her time doing all the work him/herself. The thought of delegating a work to someone else is frightening. A perfectly acceptable result is never perfectly perfect for the perfectionist. He/she always thinks, "I should've done it myself."

He/she will ask someone else to create a document, only to grumble that the width of the column is 0.75 points less than what it should be, making the table too wide to be printed in a single page.

He/she will ask for someone else to make a design, only to find it unsatisfactory and will re-do everything according to his/her wish, all by him/herself.

He/she will waste countless hours of sleep, thinking of the mistakes that he/she should have not made during the day, and trying to figure out the perfect solution for problems of the morrow.

The color of the wall should have had 5% more red. The stairs should have been 10 cms wider. The report should have weight information. The response should've been faster. The trees should've been planted earlier.

And woe is the person who has to deal with a perfectionist, for that person will, in turn, become a perfectionist also, like it or not."

As a result, he did correct ALL the tiny-little details & mistakes that our 6 office staffs made!
from scanning, filling Proforma invoice, for costing, accounting, etc etc etc etc etc!

...i really am shocked, and awed by his perfectionist & personal-competence attitude!
but is this really typical of INTJ folks, generally, or just my cousin?...i wonder?
 

Natrushka

Pareo cattus
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,213
MBTI Type
INTJ
I'd guess some of it's INTJness and some it's your cousin. I am a control-freak-perfectionist about some things. I would be upset about the design, hell, I'd have done that myself to begin with. Margins? Percentage of red? Bleh - not interested.

There are things I do at home because I want (need?) them done a certain way - MY way. Other things I could care less about and happily delegate. I suspect in us it comes down to the J.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
Maybe he's ISTJ or very close to the INTJ/ISTJ border. ISTJ's are definitely perfectionists.
 

Mycroft

The elder Holmes
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,068
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
How old is he? Most INTJs learn soon enough the importance of choosing battles.
 

niki

New member
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
210
MBTI Type
INFP
my INTJ cousin is 29 yrs old.
I'm working in the same factory with him (it's a family-business).

Hmm...i really highly doubt that he's an ISTJ.
all his talks & conversations all this time signaled to me that he's just WAY too 'geeky' & 'intuitive' to be an "S" (ISTJ) ! I definitely am sure he's a pure INTJ, in fact, he has also tested the MBTi test (I 'forced' him once to try the test he he) and came out with INTJ too!

I thought I've read some descriptions of INTJ somewhere...that it says that INTJ are indeed mostly are of perfectionists nature. In fact, it's the "NT" folks who're usually have the tendency of being prefectionist?
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
SJs can be perfectionists as well.

(It's more the underlying motivation and WHAT things the person is a perfectionist about that reflects type.)

For example, an ISTJ might be extremely perfectionist about how a bookcase is built/assembled. Everything has to be lined up, everything symmetrical, everything slides neatly together, the finish has to be perfect, etc.

In contrast, an INTP might not care as much about the tangible construction/precision of the bookcase; but if the design of the bookcase is not perfect (i.e., it does not suit the person's needs, does not allow for the full range of book sizes potentially available in the future, etc.), then s/he might spend hours and hours working to create the perfect design.

(Here you have an interesting comparison because both are thinking types but focus on different elements of the bookcase.)
 

Veneti

New member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
264
MBTI Type
XNTX
Not sure that a true (solid) INTJ is a perfectionist, unless it matters.

Perfectionist is too close to wrote learning. Although, I can be an absolute perectionist if on a cost/benefit basis it matters (Basically like in a contingency mode to ensure everything is absolutely the best and most defensible or most likely to work etc).
 

Nonpareil

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
268
MBTI Type
INTJ
Well, I'm an INTJ and I wouldn't exactly call myself a perfectionist...although, what do you think dear? I do see myself in the way you describe your cousin, I am extremely anal with certain things, especially at work. I have a certain place for everything at work (to make things more efficient for me) and it drives me nuts when people move the stapler (for example) a couple centimetres away from where it's suppose to be! I often time find myself thinking that I should have done it myself because whoever else did it sucked!

At home, I'm anal about how the dishes are stacked in the dishwasher, how the bed's made, how you do the laundry or how you clean the house. Don't get me wrong, I my home isn't spotless - it's far from that, but when my J gets going, I'll blow over anyone or thing that's in my way. I think, as some INTJ or others say, it's a matter of how important I see the thing. If I don't see it as important or relevant (for that moment), I won't be a perfectionist about it; but, if I found something important/relevant to me or the situation, I would be so anal about how it's done. You will be able to read my rants on my current situation with wedding planning....but that's a whole different topic.
 

Veneti

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264
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XNTX
Well, I'm an INTJ and I wouldn't exactly call myself a perfectionist...although, what do you think dear? I do see myself in the way you describe your cousin, I am extremely anal with certain things, especially at work. I have a certain place for everything at work (to make things more efficient for me) and it drives me nuts when people move the stapler (for example) a couple centimetres away from where it's suppose to be! I often time find myself thinking that I should have done it myself because whoever else did it sucked!

At home, I'm anal about how the dishes are stacked in the dishwasher, how the bed's made, how you do the laundry or how you clean the house. Don't get me wrong, I my home isn't spotless - it's far from that, but when my J gets going, I'll blow over anyone or thing that's in my way. I think, as some INTJ or others say, it's a matter of how important I see the thing. If I don't see it as important or relevant (for that moment), I won't be a perfectionist about it; but, if I found something important/relevant to me or the situation, I would be so anal about how it's done. You will be able to read my rants on my current situation with wedding planning....but that's a whole different topic.


Hmmm... I'm actually quite disorganised and messy in an outward appearance. However, I have loads of virtual filing cabinets in my mind filled with loads of concepts and business idea's I am currently thinking about.

I don't care about the dishes because I like living in my mind thinking about things. My idea of being organised and efficient would to be to buy carton's of paper plates and just place them straight into the bin so I could get through the mundane faster.

As an example, I went to a men's suit maker that sells quite high end shoes for men. About 1 year ago I went in there and bought a pair of shoes and they've worn out. So I went and bought an exact replacement pair (they are over priced but I hate shopping and its quick) and I really thought about buying another 5 pairs to last me another 5 years. Why... an INTJ would know why.
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
Well, I'm an INTJ and I wouldn't exactly call myself a perfectionist...although, what do you think dear?

Nope, you aren't too much of a perfectionist. More obsessive over certain things :D

I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to... say... schoolwork, until I get bored of the topic. I find most INTJs to say "Good enough" for most things, but are often obsessive compulsive over certain particular things.
 

Natrushka

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Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,213
MBTI Type
INTJ
I find most INTJs to say "Good enough" for most things, but are often obsessive compulsive over certain particular things.

Yep. "Obsessive compulsive" being 'perfectionist' to outsiders. But only to some things. The things we deem important :D
 

niki

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Sep 16, 2007
Messages
210
MBTI Type
INFP
However, I have loads of virtual filing cabinets in my mind filled with loads of concepts and business idea's I am currently thinking about.

Wow....You seriously sounds like my cousin! :D
he just LOVE too much to make many....my god....MANY very-very detailed-concepts & business idea , even to the point of almost 'unrealistically' (well yeah it is unrealistic. i can just see the "forest" pretty quick, rather than the "trees"!) CHANGE the whole already-built-in-for-30-years Factory , so it can suits his ideas & concepts, down to the littlest details like: the salary system, the flow-chart, the profit-margin calculations, until even the position of the machineries & workers in exact places!!
Right when I see his 'passion' in all those stuff (but unfortunately, all of them were rejected by his seemingly-"ESFP" dad for being just 'Unrealistic' , and just theory/concepts!) ,...I KNEW that I'll NEVER be able to be like him!!
I suck at the details....which explain why more than often, I felt that I was badly misplaced at the wrong career & wrong position here in the factory :(

but anyway, yeah, admitedly by him, the Factory is the Most-important think for my INTJ cousin.
no wonder he often said to me that he just can't sleep at many nights, thinking of this concept, that concept, this idea, that idea, and fixing many errors & problems in the company........he even confessed that he sometimes DREAMT about the theories & concepts in his sleep!! (*while I dreamt about going to another galaxy & see many 'mysterious' but out-of-the-world things!* :D )
 

Usehername

On a mission
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May 30, 2007
Messages
3,794
i'd say my natural state is perfectionism (except for stupid things. like my hair, or cleaning the shower, for example... some things are naturally Good Enough).

However, i easily play the Effort vs. Benefit game. (My trademark phrase through high school: I often didn't do the homework if it wasn't going to affect my grade that much. For example: homework was worth 5% of my biology final grade. I figured, psh, that's totally not worth the time investment. So I made a deal with my teacher, and while the class did their homework, I would get to hear stories from her. My Effort vs. Benefit game caught on; I had a following.)
 

Nonpareil

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Jul 20, 2007
Messages
268
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Hmmm... I'm actually quite disorganised and messy in an outward appearance. However, I have loads of virtual filing cabinets in my mind filled with loads of concepts and business idea's I am currently thinking about.

I know exactly what you are talking about. If you live with me, you know how "messy" my place can be. I'm anal about a lot of things, like, I have my clothes thrown all over the house but heaven forbid any of it be on the ground. I don't clean or dust everyday, but when it happens to bother me or get in my way, I go on a cleaning frenzy and I complain that pt (who tries to help me) doesn't do a good job and I have to do it again.

My mind is always full of thoughts and ideas, I come up with tons of business ideas all the time. As for my virtual filing cabinets, since irl, my papers and things aren't usually organized at home, I am very organized in my mind. I can give you a general idea where things are in my home but if anyone else had to find them, they would be looking forever. Pt has been through that.

I don't care about the dishes because I like living in my mind thinking about things. My idea of being organised and efficient would to be to buy carton's of paper plates and just place them straight into the bin so I could get through the mundane faster.
I don't care about dishes, in fact I hate doing them. I try to get pt to do them but his "p" tends to put it off. I only care how dishes are done because there's always a right way to things and plus, I don't think pt does it efficiently enough....I love you dear!:wubbie: I would buy paper plates, cups and such but I don't like to waste money. If I do happen to use desposible dishes, I try to come up ways to recycle them so I can use it again.
As an example, I went to a men's suit maker that sells quite high end shoes for men. About 1 year ago I went in there and bought a pair of shoes and they've worn out. So I went and bought an exact replacement pair (they are over priced but I hate shopping and its quick) and I really thought about buying another 5 pairs to last me another 5 years. Why... an INTJ would know why.
I'm like that too, I always have to resist the urge to buy a x year's supply in something I like. But I do love shopping!

Yep. "Obsessive compulsive" being 'perfectionist' to outsiders. But only to some things. The things we deem important :D
Yes, I guess that's a better word, obsessive compulsive BUT only to what we deem important.
Wow....You seriously sounds like my cousin! :D
he just LOVE too much to make many....my god....MANY very-very detailed-concepts & business idea , even to the point of almost 'unrealistically' (well yeah it is unrealistic. i can just see the "forest" pretty quick, rather than the "trees"!) CHANGE the whole already-built-in-for-30-years Factory , so it can suits his ideas & concepts, down to the littlest details like: the salary system, the flow-chart, the profit-margin calculations, until even the position of the machineries & workers in exact places!!
Right when I see his 'passion' in all those stuff (but unfortunately, all of them were rejected by his seemingly-"ESFP" dad for being just 'Unrealistic' , and just theory/concepts!) ,...I KNEW that I'll NEVER be able to be like him!!
I suck at the details....which explain why more than often, I felt that I was badly misplaced at the wrong career & wrong position here in the factory :(

but anyway, yeah, admitedly by him, the Factory is the Most-important think for my INTJ cousin.
no wonder he often said to me that he just can't sleep at many nights, thinking of this concept, that concept, this idea, that idea, and fixing many errors & problems in the company........he even confessed that he sometimes DREAMT about the theories & concepts in his sleep!! (*while I dreamt about going to another galaxy & see many 'mysterious' but out-of-the-world things!* :D )

If I was your cousin, I would dream of my job too, how to improve it and how to fix this and that. I do that with life already: "If I ran this clinic, I would do it this way....", "For our wedding, we need to do...." I do dream or consume a lot of my time thinking about things I find very important to me.
 

niki

New member
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
210
MBTI Type
INFP
yeah, which reminds me: it's NOT only the factory that's the the most important that he can get perfectionist at.
It's in everything that he deems important to him, for example: during his marriage, he plans everything like crazy even to the tiniest detail of how each hour should be according to his plan! wow...
and oh, also when he wants to go on holiday/vacation/travelling!!
you should've seen his notebook, full of the hourly-plan, of what he'd do in every-hour in his every-single-day of the vacation!
wow!!!! (why he can't just be spontaneous when during the vacation-time, and just enjoy whatever comes up? he he he)
 

Arandur

New member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
60
MBTI Type
INTJ
I'm INTJ, and I'm only a perfectionist when it comes to stuff I'm interested in, such as my drawings, or the autobody work I've done on my cars. If I don't get something perfect, it nags and nags at me until I get it just right.
 

Wolf

only bites when provoked
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,127
MBTI Type
INTJ
I'm only a perfectionist about things that are important, everything else is either kept within reason or generally ignored (or totally ignored, like my yard, which is nothing but dead weeds, palm trees, and succulent plants watered by my next-door-neighbor's sprinkler system).
 

Veneti

New member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
264
MBTI Type
XNTX
Wow....You seriously sounds like my cousin! :D
he just LOVE too much to make many....my god....MANY very-very detailed-concepts & business idea , even to the point of almost 'unrealistically' (well yeah it is unrealistic. i can just see the "forest" pretty quick, rather than the "trees"!) CHANGE the whole already-built-in-for-30-years Factory , so it can suits his ideas & concepts, down to the littlest details like: the salary system, the flow-chart, the profit-margin calculations, until even the position of the machineries & workers in exact places!!
Right when I see his 'passion' in all those stuff (but unfortunately, all of them were rejected by his seemingly-"ESFP" dad for being just 'Unrealistic' , and just theory/concepts!) ,...I KNEW that I'll NEVER be able to be like him!!
I suck at the details....which explain why more than often, I felt that I was badly misplaced at the wrong career & wrong position here in the factory :(

but anyway, yeah, admitedly by him, the Factory is the Most-important think for my INTJ cousin.
no wonder he often said to me that he just can't sleep at many nights, thinking of this concept, that concept, this idea, that idea, and fixing many errors & problems in the company........he even confessed that he sometimes DREAMT about the theories & concepts in his sleep!! (*while I dreamt about going to another galaxy & see many 'mysterious' but out-of-the-world things!* :D )

The biggest problem I can see with motivated INTJ types is the lack of actualisation if you're too caught up with generating new concepts.

If you live too much in the "what if" you might have pages of concepts, but you must chose a time and place, AND you must prove it. Focusing on the most advantageous and most likely idea to succeed with the highest payoff.
 

Splittet

Wannabe genius
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
632
MBTI Type
INTJ
The biggest problem I can see with motivated INTJ types is the lack of actualisation if you're too caught up with generating new concepts.

If you live too much in the "what if" you might have pages of concepts, but you must chose a time and place, AND you must prove it. Focusing on the most advantageous and most likely idea to succeed with the highest payoff.

With Te as secondary function, I think the INTJ type is probably the second strongest of the iNtuitive types on actualisation, behind ENTJs. Generally I think most INTJs are very good at following through with their ideas, compared to most other types. I think what you describe fits better to NPs.
 
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