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  1. #61
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    It doesn't need to be. Think of it this way: every shortsighted dismissal (and it is caprice, I don't agree with a scrap of what's been said) is a bridge or two burnt. One really can't get very far -- or at least very far in more than one direction.
    The degree that it is done doesn't change the outside impression on the randomness of what decides the write off. Random and uncertainty are the main factors involved here, along with the lack of emotional connection. The willingness to do something combined with the uncertain triggers is what triggers the intimidation. If it was easy to predict and/or it was done universally, then people would write INTJs off, not the other way around.

    And it doesn't always have to be long term - INTJs are plenty good at saying you are idiot directly or indirectly.

  2. #62
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Random and uncertainty are the main factors involved here, along with the lack of emotional connection.
    That I understand. What I don't understand is, beyond the natural emotional pain from unjustified and/or unexpected rejection, how one can continue to value an individual exhibiting any number of avoidant disorders.

    And it doesn't always have to be long term - INTJs are plenty good at saying you are an idiot directly or indirectly.
    Yes, but what does it matter if it's not true? And what does the opinion of someone who can't tell what is from what isn't rate -- what should it rate? Answer: zero. Let them lock themselves out.

  3. #63
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    That I understand. What I don't understand is, beyond the natural emotional pain from unjustified and/or unexpected rejection, how one can continue to value an individual exhibiting any number of avoidant disorders.
    Are we talking about INTJs being avoidant? Cause that's the normal view on "writing off"/dismissive...?

    Yes, but what does it matter if it's not true?
    It does matter. INTJs don't think it does, but that's what makes this whole situation directed towards INTJs. This is the hard edge, the unsocial factor, the intimidation.

    INTJs pretend they have no investment, that they will walk away. That is contrary to connection at a personal level. It comes out.

    It's like starting a conversation with "I will be your friend up until you make a single mistake, at which point I'll make you feel like an idiot and never talk to you again". Even though that isn't the reality, it isn't being said - it's projected. That projection generalises the feeling.

  4. #64
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Are we talking about INTJs being avoidant? Cause that's the normal view on "writing off"/dismissive...?
    It's a deficiency. Their problem; not yours.

    It's like starting a conversation with "I will be your friend up until you make a single mistake, at which point I'll make you feel like an idiot and never talk to you again". Even though that isn't the reality, it isn't being said - it's projected. That projection generalises the feeling.
    Yes, but it begs my question: why enter into a relationship in the first place and allow that power over you. If that is a clause in the contract, why assume that it isn't reciprocal?

    Case in point: I was unceremoniously rejected at the start of the year. It hurt, but a friend's reality check a couple of days later confirmed that I had done nothing wrong. Within days I had moved from the pain and simply went about trying to parse the scrambled mind of the other party.

    That took a few weeks, and then I was done; and yet ten months on, a certain someone in a Tokyo suburb is trying to sneak peeks at my website through Google cache, and tripping my counter.

    But the curiosity is not mutual. The "rejection" really wasn't.

    I agree that this behavior exists, but know that it shouldn't be taken seriously.

  5. #65
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Hmm, my husband is an INTJ, my father an INTX and I have a INTJ friend as well. After a fair amount of though, I have to say, I don't find any of them intimidating and I don't find the INTJs I've meet online intimidating either. Stubborn, selfconfident, sometimes prejudiced but not intimidating in any way.
    Yeah, this is generally the case. I had this very discussion with a friend of mine today (ENxP). He had no idea what I was talking about. What most people (who are friends with INTJs) don't understand, though, is that we act very different with close friends than we do when we are on our own.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  6. #66
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    It's a deficiency. Their problem; not yours.

    I agree that this behavior exists, but know that it shouldn't be taken seriously.
    Oh, then we have no disagreement. However, that the proper solution would be not to hire them, date them, marry them or be friends with them... well, I guess it is good the world tolerates INTJs, hrmmm?

    But as you say, it is easily worked around so it isn't that big of the deal. The intent was just to explain why the intimidation exists.

  7. #67
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    It's a deficiency. Their problem; not yours.
    I never meant to imply that it wasn't. That's why I asked what it is that we do that causes this reaction. ...I realize this post wasn't addressed to me, though...

    Yes, but it begs my question: why enter into a relationship in the first place and allow that power over you. If that is a clause in the contract, why assume that it isn't reciprocal?

    Case in point: I was unceremoniously rejected at the start of the year. It hurt, but a friend's reality check a couple of days later confirmed that I had done nothing wrong. Within days I had moved from the pain and simply went about trying to parse the scrambled mind of the other party.

    That took a few weeks, and then I was done, and yet ten months on, a certain someone in a Tokyo suburb is trying to sneak peeks at my website through Google cache, and tripping my counter.

    But the curiosity is not mutual. The "rejection" really wasn't.

    I agree that this behavior exists, but know that it shouldn't be taken seriously.
    I think the difference in types of "writing people off" is somewhat confusing here. You seem to be under the impression that it is a conciously thought out process. I seem to see it as an instant decision. In my experience, we don't really forgive or forget, we just ignore the problem if we find the friendship worth more than the problem.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  8. #68
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    However, that the proper solution would be not to hire them, date them, marry them or be friends with them...
    I suggest petting zoos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    You seem to be under the impression that it is a consciously thought out process.
    No, I do think it to be reactive and maladaptive. Decisiveness in relationships is one thing; ruthlessness (let alone pride in it) is poor judgment in every aspect, be it practical or sentimental.

  9. #69
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    I suggest petting zoos.
    Gladiatorial style fighting to the death would be more entertaining for all parties involved.

    The world would probably be a more peaceful place (albeit, more hippyish).
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  10. #70
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    I've actually been finding "writing people off" quite useful, just painful at first like spraining your ankle. You don't want to do it because you know of the pain; but when it happens, it happens, you deal with it and the pain eventually fades. That may be because I'm an F though...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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