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[NT] Connecting to People

Asterion

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Is it really necessary? I mean emotionally, like with a couple of your most trusted friends, do you actually "open up to them" to become "connected"?

Most of the people I know are just there to hang out with, share a few jokes, occasionally chit chat about with and invite to the movies and whatever, what does it actually mean to be connected to someone? I'm starting to think that I've never actually connected to anyone, which is really kind of weird, I never considered it before. I'm not even sure I have anything to open up with people about, am I supposed to have something to open up about? Is it things like insecurities, or is it just the funny kind of stories about things you've done in the past? ... I don't get it :doh:
 

Amargith

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No, it's not necessary, I guess :)
But..I wouldn't want to live without it, personally. Often, it's a process of self-revelation. You get to know one another in every way, the good, the bad and the ugly. And in the process, you often discover things about yourself you never knew. It also makes you extremely vulnerable, but becoz you trust them, and that trust is built on sharing equally deep and dark things, it is also very rewarding. It means having someone you don't always have to be strong around, someone who can see through your masks and facade. It takes away a lot of loneliness and detachedness from the world.

Yes there are risks, but the risks match and even don't weigh up against the advantages, imo.
 

ceecee

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It's not necessary. I agree it makes no sense and, when you start to think about it, sounds like an insurmountable task. Connecting to a another means you have common ground, understanding and an interest in what they really think and want and desire. Their passions. What makes them happy, sad, angry. It's not one specific thing or the same thing to each person. You can't force it either. Only when you develop trust is when this is able to take place. I didn't get it either. Not for a long time. When it happened it freed me to share myself with another person and for them to do the same in return. That's what a connection is all about.
 

Asterion

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No, it's not necessary, I guess :)
But..I wouldn't want to live without it, personally. Often, it's a process of self-revelation. You get to know one another in every way, the good, the bad and the ugly. And in the process, you often discover things about yourself you never knew. It also makes you extremely vulnerable, but becoz you trust them, and that trust is built on sharing equally deep and dark things, it is also very rewarding. It means having someone you don't always have to be strong around, someone who can see through your masks and facade. It takes away a lot of loneliness and detachedness from the world.

Yes there are risks, but the risks match and even don't weigh up against the advantages, imo.

Like having someone that you can share anything with, and know that they are not going to turn it on you somehow, I think I can see how it works, you can trust someone more once you've seen that they are trustworthy, and having someone else vulnerable to you shows that they trust you as well. It's almost like being tied together, I see why it's referred to as connecting.

It's not necessary. I agree it makes no sense and, when you start to think about it, sounds like an insurmountable task. Connecting to a another means you have common ground, understanding and an interest in what they really think and want and desire. Their passions. What makes them happy, sad, angry. It's not one specific thing or the same thing to each person. You can't force it either. Only when you develop trust is when this is able to take place. I didn't get it either. Not for a long time. When it happened it freed me to share myself with another person and for them to do the same in return. That's what a connection is all about.

Haha, I just get the idea that you could go up to anyone and just talk about yourself in as much detail as possible and if they talk back in the same fashion, you become connected... to an absolute stranger? I take it that this happens naturally between people over time, you just expand the amount of topics that you can talk about with them, right?

okay, *writes it off as not necessary, but beneficial*
 

Amargith

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To get it really up to the highest level can take months...years even depending on how often you talk and how closed you are as a person. Though with some you can develop such a bond rather intensely and instantaneous...often though you have to watch out not to burn out, as trust does need time to grow..going too fast often causes some uneasiness or even premature boredom with one another, or can flat out hurt people in the process. So yes..it is quite an investment to get it right :)

Also, it's best when it happens spontaneously, without expectation and in a genuine fasion, ime.
 

Asterion

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To get it really up to the highest level can take months...years even depending on how often you talk and how closed you are as a person. Though with some you can develop such a bond rather intensely and instantaneous...often though you have to watch out not to burn out, as trust does need time to grow..going too fast often causes some uneasiness or even premature boredom with one another, or can flat out hurt people in the process. So yes..it is quite an investment to get it right :)

Also, it's best when it happens spontaneously, without expectation and in a genuine fasion, ime.

How many people can you be connected to? I'd take it that you can connect to as many as you want/need... I suppose having more than a few would get difficult to maintain... wait, what's the limit of things that you would actually say to someone you don't know? lol, If I go up to someone and tell them that I used to be abused at a child or something whacko like that and do it in a genuine kind of way, what would actually happen?

I wonder if this is what the profiles meant when they stated that ENTPs tend to find it hard to see the psychological distance between themselves and others... that might have been a socionics description... I can't remember anymore :thinking:
 

ceecee

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How many people can you be connected to? I'd take it that you can connect to as many as you want/need... I suppose having more than a few would get difficult to maintain... wait, what's the limit of things that you would actually say to someone you don't know? lol, If I go up to someone and tell them that I used to be abused at a child or something whacko like that and do it in a genuine kind of way, what would actually happen?

It's not about quantity. Like my husband. I'm very connected to him but it took years. My best GF, I'm also connected to but not at the same level as my husband. I'm connected to my children but in a whole different way.

I don't know that telling a casual acquaintance you were abused as a child would suddenly connect you to them. Probably not. You start small and work your way up to bigger things, at least that's how I did it.
 

Amargith

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How many people can you be connected to? I'd take it that you can connect to as many as you want/need... I suppose having more than a few would get difficult to maintain... wait, what's the limit of things that you would actually say to someone you don't know? lol, If I go up to someone and tell them that I used to be abused at a child or something whacko like that and do it in a genuine kind of way, what would actually happen?

I can only speak for myself but...there are different levels. Every connection is different. The most intense one I've ever had was with my current SO. Other than that, I've had several intense ones with people who've come close to being a soulmate. Oddly, it's something that usually only happens with one (extra) person at a time. But I'm sure that it is possible to have several connections at ones, though it would indeed be very high maintenance to keep going. I do usually have several other connections going that don't go that far, just yet. They might have potential, but it's rare to click with someone that well that you get to that high a level, ime.

As for fessing up too soon, that would often lead to a lot of uncomfortableness, as the trust necessary for handling such a thing isn't there yet..from either side. You build it up. You start with what you like in life, find a common ground, share some insights on how you view the world, learn from each other, etc etc. You see if you're compatible, really, wether that includes romantically so or just friendship-based. Along the way, depending on how well those talks go, you can get to the more intense stuff, as often, you'll notice that you share similar traumatic experiences from your past, or similar beliefs, or just similar life lessons. That forms a bond, and furthers the trust. Only after all of that, those things will happen, usually.

There are circumstances where those kind of things are already shared in the first conversation. Often that's coz the conversation is going very smoothly and you can literally 'skip' certain stages. One of the two basically inspires so much trust in the other, and/or the other is dealing with some emotional scars they cannot seem to keep inside, which leads to these kind of intense talks early on. It then often depends on the social skills of both parties how that pans out. If it does work, it creates an immediate and deep bond, however, it's still fleeting if not maintained, and can die out more quickly than one that has been cultivated over time.
 

Asterion

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It's not about quantity. Like my husband. I'm very connected to him but it took years. My best GF, I'm also connected to but not at the same level as my husband. I'm connected to my children but in a whole different way.

I don't know that telling a casual acquaintance you were abused as a child would suddenly connect you to them. Probably not. You start small and work your way up to bigger things, at least that's how I did it.

I just want to reduce it to something straightforward and simple I think, whereas it seems to be something that requires effort to maintain and tact such that you don't alienate people, can someone connect to you even if you don't connect to them? or do you really need to expose yourself (however you'd go about doing that) when they expose themselves?

I can only speak for myself but...there are different levels. Every connection is different. The most intense one I've ever had was with my current SO. Other than that, I've had several intense ones with people who've come close to being a soulmate. Oddly, it's something that usually only happens with one (extra) person at a time. But I'm sure that it is possible to have several connections at ones, though it would indeed be very high maintenance to keep going. I do usually have several other connections going that don't go that far, just yet. They might have potential, but it's rare to click with someone that well that you get to that high a level, ime.

As for fessing up too soon, that would often lead to a lot of uncomfortableness, as the trust necessary for handling such a thing isn't there yet..from either side. You build it up. You start with what you like in life, find a common ground, share some insights on how you view the world, learn from each other, etc etc. You see if you're compatible, really, wether that includes romantically so or just friendship-based. Along the way, depending on how well those talks go, you can get to the more intense stuff, as often, you'll notice that you share similar traumatic experiences from your past, or similar beliefs, or just similar life lessons. That forms a bond, and furthers the trust. Only after all of that, those things will happen, usually.

There are circumstances where those kind of things are already shared in the first conversation. Often that's coz the conversation is going very smoothly and you can literally 'skip' certain stages. One of the two basically inspires so much trust in the other, and/or the other is dealing with some emotional scars they cannot seem to keep inside, which leads to these kind of intense talks early on. It then often depends on the social skills of both parties how that pans out. If it does work, it creates an immediate and deep bond, however, it's still fleeting if not maintained, and can die out more quickly than one that has been cultivated over time.

Is it necessary to connect to a SO? hmmm, I think if people find that you are serious enough to handle their problems, they would do it more often. I find that people don't talk to me about the same kind of things they do to one of my mates (an ISTJ), He talks to them about the things that they do in life, their jobs, their everything, whereas I just joke and play about and act rather childish, and realize later that I don't even know where they work or anything significant about them... that's not a problem is it? lol, I have plenty of questions :D
 

Amargith

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I just want to reduce it to something straightforward and simple I think, whereas it seems to be something that requires effort to maintain and tact such that you don't alienate people, can someone connect to you even if you don't connect to them? or do you really need to expose yourself (however you'd go about doing that) when they expose themselves?



Is it necessary to connect to a SO? hmmm, I think if people find that you are serious enough to handle their problems, they would do it more often. I find that people don't talk to me about the same kind of things they do to one of my mates (an ISTJ), He talks to them about the things that they do in life, their jobs, their everything, whereas I just joke and play about and act rather childish, and realize later that I don't even know where they work or anything significant about them... that's not a problem is it? lol, I have plenty of questions :D

Well..the connection is what binds you throughout life, I find. At least in my case. And no, it's not a problem that people come to you for something else. Peopel won't come to me to organize stuff or help them with daily details. They'll come to me when they need comforting, when they need their emotions sorted out. We all have our strenghts ,and people automatically look to you for those talents when they're in need of those :)
 

BerberElla

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If it does work, it creates an immediate and deep bond, however, it's still fleeting if not maintained, and can die out more quickly than one that has been cultivated over time.


True but often you find, in fact all of the time I find that the ones I instantly connect with, are the ones where cultivating that connection is such a natural thing that you don't even realise you are doing it.

I don't really like spending time with anyone that I'm not connected to on another level, it's very important to me to connect to the people around me, I don't really have the time or patience for anything less satisfying than the whole package.

It doesn't have to come from a flash of vulnerability, although that does appeal to me too, it can come from shared humour too. My closest friend ever was a meeting that took less than 5 minutes of sizing each other up before bursting into laughter and realising how perfect our friendship was going to be. It was gut reactions, my intuition has never been wrong, and yet still I occasionally ignore. :doh:
 

Asterion

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Well..the connection is what binds you throughout life, I find. At least in my case. And no, it's not a problem that people come to you for something else. Peopel won't come to me to organize stuff or help them with daily details. They'll come to me when they need comforting, when they need their emotions sorted out. We all have our strenghts ,and people automatically look to you for those talents when they're in need of those :)

:blink: oh dear... okay, so to form a bond, you don't even need to try because it will come naturally, you don't need to understand entirely what the bond is, as you'll know what it is when you see it. I think people come to me to be entertained... or at the very least confused :smile:. So if it's not a problem that they have that they will come to you to for help with... it's more like sharing something with that person that you would never share with anyone else? So if you have a whole heap of bottled up feelings or something like that you would slowly open up to the other person, and they would do the same, and eventually you build up a connection, which can be broken by abusing their trust or probably by laughing/ridiculing them at their weakest point. But what if you don't think that you have those feelings? I can't think of any emotions that I have bottled up or anything that I would actually bother sharing, how can you share if you don't have anything to share? Perhaps I just cant see them... :huh: I wonder if that's just a T thing, do Fs really have a better understanding of emotions, specifically their own?
 

Asterion

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True but often you find, in fact all of the time I find that the ones I instantly connect with, are the ones where cultivating that connection is such a natural thing that you don't even realise you are doing it.

I don't really like spending time with anyone that I'm not connected to on another level, it's very important to me to connect to the people around me, I don't really have the time or patience for anything less satisfying than the whole package.

It doesn't have to come from a flash of vulnerability, although that does appeal to me too, it can come from shared humour too. My closest friend ever was a meeting that took less than 5 minutes of sizing each other up before bursting into laughter and realising how perfect our friendship was going to be. It was gut reactions, my intuition has never been wrong, and yet still I occasionally ignore. :doh:

So it's really just a shared feeling of closeness between two or more people? I think I'm neglecting the fact that it has specific levels, and isn't really a 'black and white' kind of system. I kind of get this with my brother, and couple of close friends, it's very fleeting though I think, and surprisingly more with my brother, we just think the same :D
 

bluebell

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Haha, I just get the idea that you could go up to anyone and just talk about yourself in as much detail as possible and if they talk back in the same fashion, you become connected... to an absolute stranger?

Amargith is really good at explaining this, IMO (heh, I'm learning stuff too reading this thread).

But I just wanted to comment on this bit, because it ties into a recent realisation for me. I have quite a few shallow friendships IRL, and even if I open up and told them what's going on, they just don't/won't get it (I've tried, this is from experience, heh). Opening up to them feels very different to opening up to someone I'm connected to. In many ways, it's scarier (to me) to open up to someone I have some sort of connection to because they see me, they see what it means at a deep level.

Gah. This is so hard to articulate. *waits hopefully for Amargith to translate into better words*
 

Asterion

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Amargith is really good at explaining this, IMO (heh, I'm learning stuff too reading this thread).

But I just wanted to comment on this bit, because it ties into a recent realisation for me. I have quite a few shallow friendships IRL, and even if I open up and told them what's going on, they just don't/won't get it (I've tried, this is from experience, heh). Opening up to them feels very different to opening up to someone I'm connected to. In many ways, it's scarier (to me) to open up to someone I have some sort of connection to because they see me, they see what it means at a deep level.

Gah. This is so hard to articulate. *waits hopefully for Amargith to translate into better words*

haha, so I'm not the only one who's learning things from this at least. Your post makes sense too, I don't think you need to open up to them though, it's more of a general thing, you can share bonds with people through simply being with them, or being there (I think), it's just that the level of the bond will increase if you choose to open up more. It's like... 1st base, 2nd base kind of stuff :rofl1:
 

Amargith

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:blink: oh dear... okay, so to form a bond, you don't even need to try because it will come naturally, you don't need to understand entirely what the bond is, as you'll know what it is when you see it. I think people come to me to be entertained... or at the very least confused :smile:. So if it's not a problem that they have that they will come to you to for help with... it's more like sharing something with that person that you would never share with anyone else? So if you have a whole heap of bottled up feelings or something like that you would slowly open up to the other person, and they would do the same, and eventually you build up a connection, which can be broken by abusing their trust or probably by laughing/ridiculing them at their weakest point. But what if you don't think that you have those feelings? I can't think of any emotions that I have bottled up or anything that I would actually bother sharing, how can you share if you don't have anything to share? Perhaps I just cant see them... :huh: I wonder if that's just a T thing, do Fs really have a better understanding of emotions, specifically their own?

The best bonds form spontaneously yes. Forcing it is...possible, as are shortcuts, but often less rewarding, fulfilling and ultimately often backfire, ime. That natural click does a lot and if you pace yourself and take the time to savour it and build it up, giving trust a chance to grow, it can be one of the most rewarding experiences in life, I find. Often humor is a great starting point for a relationship like that, like Berberella said. As you spend more time together, you'll find out a lot about the person just by what they're joking about, how they go about things, and you'll probably feel more comfortable to have some serious talks as well along the way.

You can share feelings yes, and that vulnerability can create a strong bond. But often it's also the things that aren't said. That you just learn to observe and notice about the person without them saying anything. And you start anticipating those, and responding to them as if they did word them. Often, you'll also feel very comfortable just being in each others presence, without the need to entertain to other, rant your head off, but just..be there and bask in their presence. And vice versa. That 'being in sync' creates a very powerful bond. That's pretty much key ime. No matter how you come about it, the fact that you only need half a word or less to get one another creates that special feeling. Someone *gets* you. Not only that, they accept you and love you for it without judging you. No facades, and even if you are wearing one, they see right through it, and you're ok with that. That's a bond of trust that's very satisfying.

Note: this is one of the highest levels I'm describing. There are other very rewarding levels in between there.

So if you don't feel comfortable sharing feelings, it isn't *required*. Personally, I love bonding with Ts. And yes, often they aren't that aware of their feelings or don't consider them important and that's fine. On the other hand, most of those that seek me out often have some desire to find out more about those feelings. Or, they find out during the course of talking that they have these feelings and we'll look at them together. I find it incredibly flattering that they invite me along on this journey. There's nothing more beautiful than watching someone self-reflect and discover more about who they are, and gain a better understanding of how and why they work that way. It also creates an incredible vulnerability and a very strong bond of trust if things pan out.

On the other hand, I enjoy a good banter session just as much and the bond that emerges from that creates mutual understanding and in the long run, trust as well. I don't require T's to open up emotionally to bond with them. And from what I gather, T's themselves bond this way aswell with each other :)

Amargith is really good at explaining this, IMO (heh, I'm learning stuff too reading this thread).

But I just wanted to comment on this bit, because it ties into a recent realisation for me. I have quite a few shallow friendships IRL, and even if I open up and told them what's going on, they just don't/won't get it (I've tried, this is from experience, heh). Opening up to them feels very different to opening up to someone I'm connected to. In many ways, it's scarier (to me) to open up to someone I have some sort of connection to because they see me, they see what it means at a deep level.

Gah. This is so hard to articulate. *waits hopefully for Amargith to translate into better words*

Tnx for the compliment :blush:
It's interesting that you find it more difficult to open up to someone who gets it. But I can sort of see why I guess. The fact that they can actually store it and use it against you, is kind of scary. But that's also what intensifies the bond, especially if they return the favor. Personally, I don't like opening up to people who don't want such a connection or are unable to grasp what I'm saying, as they too, can use it against you, and often they don't offer the same back. Besides that, it just feels empty to share something that special to you when it's not appreciated or seen for what it is. It can feel like you shared for no good reason...but I guess that's what appeals to you. You can say it, therefore vent, and you know that they'll forget right after :)

I too have connections that are shallow with some people, and that's just fine too. They are fun in their own way and can be quite relaxing coz it doesn't demand that much energy. And I've found there to be at least 5 to 10 levels when connecting with people, if not more, which all have their use.
 
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