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  1. #11
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    If it does work, it creates an immediate and deep bond, however, it's still fleeting if not maintained, and can die out more quickly than one that has been cultivated over time.

    True but often you find, in fact all of the time I find that the ones I instantly connect with, are the ones where cultivating that connection is such a natural thing that you don't even realise you are doing it.

    I don't really like spending time with anyone that I'm not connected to on another level, it's very important to me to connect to the people around me, I don't really have the time or patience for anything less satisfying than the whole package.

    It doesn't have to come from a flash of vulnerability, although that does appeal to me too, it can come from shared humour too. My closest friend ever was a meeting that took less than 5 minutes of sizing each other up before bursting into laughter and realising how perfect our friendship was going to be. It was gut reactions, my intuition has never been wrong, and yet still I occasionally ignore.
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  2. #12
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Well..the connection is what binds you throughout life, I find. At least in my case. And no, it's not a problem that people come to you for something else. Peopel won't come to me to organize stuff or help them with daily details. They'll come to me when they need comforting, when they need their emotions sorted out. We all have our strenghts ,and people automatically look to you for those talents when they're in need of those
    oh dear... okay, so to form a bond, you don't even need to try because it will come naturally, you don't need to understand entirely what the bond is, as you'll know what it is when you see it. I think people come to me to be entertained... or at the very least confused . So if it's not a problem that they have that they will come to you to for help with... it's more like sharing something with that person that you would never share with anyone else? So if you have a whole heap of bottled up feelings or something like that you would slowly open up to the other person, and they would do the same, and eventually you build up a connection, which can be broken by abusing their trust or probably by laughing/ridiculing them at their weakest point. But what if you don't think that you have those feelings? I can't think of any emotions that I have bottled up or anything that I would actually bother sharing, how can you share if you don't have anything to share? Perhaps I just cant see them... I wonder if that's just a T thing, do Fs really have a better understanding of emotions, specifically their own?
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  3. #13
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    True but often you find, in fact all of the time I find that the ones I instantly connect with, are the ones where cultivating that connection is such a natural thing that you don't even realise you are doing it.

    I don't really like spending time with anyone that I'm not connected to on another level, it's very important to me to connect to the people around me, I don't really have the time or patience for anything less satisfying than the whole package.

    It doesn't have to come from a flash of vulnerability, although that does appeal to me too, it can come from shared humour too. My closest friend ever was a meeting that took less than 5 minutes of sizing each other up before bursting into laughter and realising how perfect our friendship was going to be. It was gut reactions, my intuition has never been wrong, and yet still I occasionally ignore.
    So it's really just a shared feeling of closeness between two or more people? I think I'm neglecting the fact that it has specific levels, and isn't really a 'black and white' kind of system. I kind of get this with my brother, and couple of close friends, it's very fleeting though I think, and surprisingly more with my brother, we just think the same
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  4. #14
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    Haha, I just get the idea that you could go up to anyone and just talk about yourself in as much detail as possible and if they talk back in the same fashion, you become connected... to an absolute stranger?
    Amargith is really good at explaining this, IMO (heh, I'm learning stuff too reading this thread).

    But I just wanted to comment on this bit, because it ties into a recent realisation for me. I have quite a few shallow friendships IRL, and even if I open up and told them what's going on, they just don't/won't get it (I've tried, this is from experience, heh). Opening up to them feels very different to opening up to someone I'm connected to. In many ways, it's scarier (to me) to open up to someone I have some sort of connection to because they see me, they see what it means at a deep level.

    Gah. This is so hard to articulate. *waits hopefully for Amargith to translate into better words*
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

  5. #15
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    Amargith is really good at explaining this, IMO (heh, I'm learning stuff too reading this thread).

    But I just wanted to comment on this bit, because it ties into a recent realisation for me. I have quite a few shallow friendships IRL, and even if I open up and told them what's going on, they just don't/won't get it (I've tried, this is from experience, heh). Opening up to them feels very different to opening up to someone I'm connected to. In many ways, it's scarier (to me) to open up to someone I have some sort of connection to because they see me, they see what it means at a deep level.

    Gah. This is so hard to articulate. *waits hopefully for Amargith to translate into better words*
    haha, so I'm not the only one who's learning things from this at least. Your post makes sense too, I don't think you need to open up to them though, it's more of a general thing, you can share bonds with people through simply being with them, or being there (I think), it's just that the level of the bond will increase if you choose to open up more. It's like... 1st base, 2nd base kind of stuff
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  6. #16
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    oh dear... okay, so to form a bond, you don't even need to try because it will come naturally, you don't need to understand entirely what the bond is, as you'll know what it is when you see it. I think people come to me to be entertained... or at the very least confused . So if it's not a problem that they have that they will come to you to for help with... it's more like sharing something with that person that you would never share with anyone else? So if you have a whole heap of bottled up feelings or something like that you would slowly open up to the other person, and they would do the same, and eventually you build up a connection, which can be broken by abusing their trust or probably by laughing/ridiculing them at their weakest point. But what if you don't think that you have those feelings? I can't think of any emotions that I have bottled up or anything that I would actually bother sharing, how can you share if you don't have anything to share? Perhaps I just cant see them... I wonder if that's just a T thing, do Fs really have a better understanding of emotions, specifically their own?
    The best bonds form spontaneously yes. Forcing it is...possible, as are shortcuts, but often less rewarding, fulfilling and ultimately often backfire, ime. That natural click does a lot and if you pace yourself and take the time to savour it and build it up, giving trust a chance to grow, it can be one of the most rewarding experiences in life, I find. Often humor is a great starting point for a relationship like that, like Berberella said. As you spend more time together, you'll find out a lot about the person just by what they're joking about, how they go about things, and you'll probably feel more comfortable to have some serious talks as well along the way.

    You can share feelings yes, and that vulnerability can create a strong bond. But often it's also the things that aren't said. That you just learn to observe and notice about the person without them saying anything. And you start anticipating those, and responding to them as if they did word them. Often, you'll also feel very comfortable just being in each others presence, without the need to entertain to other, rant your head off, but just..be there and bask in their presence. And vice versa. That 'being in sync' creates a very powerful bond. That's pretty much key ime. No matter how you come about it, the fact that you only need half a word or less to get one another creates that special feeling. Someone *gets* you. Not only that, they accept you and love you for it without judging you. No facades, and even if you are wearing one, they see right through it, and you're ok with that. That's a bond of trust that's very satisfying.

    Note: this is one of the highest levels I'm describing. There are other very rewarding levels in between there.

    So if you don't feel comfortable sharing feelings, it isn't *required*. Personally, I love bonding with Ts. And yes, often they aren't that aware of their feelings or don't consider them important and that's fine. On the other hand, most of those that seek me out often have some desire to find out more about those feelings. Or, they find out during the course of talking that they have these feelings and we'll look at them together. I find it incredibly flattering that they invite me along on this journey. There's nothing more beautiful than watching someone self-reflect and discover more about who they are, and gain a better understanding of how and why they work that way. It also creates an incredible vulnerability and a very strong bond of trust if things pan out.

    On the other hand, I enjoy a good banter session just as much and the bond that emerges from that creates mutual understanding and in the long run, trust as well. I don't require T's to open up emotionally to bond with them. And from what I gather, T's themselves bond this way aswell with each other

    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    Amargith is really good at explaining this, IMO (heh, I'm learning stuff too reading this thread).

    But I just wanted to comment on this bit, because it ties into a recent realisation for me. I have quite a few shallow friendships IRL, and even if I open up and told them what's going on, they just don't/won't get it (I've tried, this is from experience, heh). Opening up to them feels very different to opening up to someone I'm connected to. In many ways, it's scarier (to me) to open up to someone I have some sort of connection to because they see me, they see what it means at a deep level.

    Gah. This is so hard to articulate. *waits hopefully for Amargith to translate into better words*
    Tnx for the compliment
    It's interesting that you find it more difficult to open up to someone who gets it. But I can sort of see why I guess. The fact that they can actually store it and use it against you, is kind of scary. But that's also what intensifies the bond, especially if they return the favor. Personally, I don't like opening up to people who don't want such a connection or are unable to grasp what I'm saying, as they too, can use it against you, and often they don't offer the same back. Besides that, it just feels empty to share something that special to you when it's not appreciated or seen for what it is. It can feel like you shared for no good reason...but I guess that's what appeals to you. You can say it, therefore vent, and you know that they'll forget right after

    I too have connections that are shallow with some people, and that's just fine too. They are fun in their own way and can be quite relaxing coz it doesn't demand that much energy. And I've found there to be at least 5 to 10 levels when connecting with people, if not more, which all have their use.
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