[NT] NT! Why are you ASSHOLES?

[Spartacuss]

Is picking on NTJs an assholish thing to do?

 

[INTPness]

Is picking on NTJs an assholish thing to do?

Not if that's how you really "feel".

 

[Scott N Denver]

Is picking on NTJs an assholish thing to do?

I'm doing my best to quote things, so as to minimize any personal distortions and to let things stand on their own without having to go through my filters first. I'm of the opinion that "people make their own nooses", I'm just publicly recording/declaring what they said. Others will make their evaluations as they will.

 

[Orangey]

-"The average person is a compete idiot. Like batsh_t stupid! Why do we let dumb people run this world?"
-"F_ck that idiot"
-"That person is an idiot, so I never listen to or do what they say, even though they are [my boss, the expert, the person in charge of that area, etc]"
-"OMG, how stupid can a person be? People like that shouldn't be in allowed to be in charge. I know they are in charge but I won't listen because they are an idiot. Intelligence always trumps leadership"

I don't see how these ones are that egregious. I've run across a lot of idiotic leadership, and in my personal time (which is when someone is most likely to be conversing with me about such things), I am likely to say things along those lines.

Merely saying these things is not a sign of immaturity or assholery. Only when they are not true do such phrases reflect poorly on the person who said them. Or if they are said in an inappropriate context (or directly to the person in charge, because they're not constructive). It doesn't seem like that was the context of your conversations, though. It seems like this person said these things to you in the context of a personal exchange between you (and maybe some other friends/acquaintances).

 

[Scott N Denver]

I don't think quoting someone is trying to pick on them. In fact, I think its about the best way to let people speak for themselves, realizing the provision that they are not here and therefore can't speak for themselves.

 

[Kangirl]

First of all thatgirl asked a rather valid question in an emotionally reactive way and she got tons of emotionally reactive replies. The only people who tried to take the thread in a more productive direction is fidelia and kuranes. Does that indicate anything to anyone or is it just me?

+1 Proteanmix, +1.

Can (some) people really not enter into a conversation in a spirit of, I don't know, willingness to actually DISCUSS the matter at hand rather than immediately jump to be offended? Omg! She called us all assholes! No, she didn't. She did not say "all NTs are assholes, wtf assholes?" I agree with some others here that Thatgirl raises a valuable point. There ARE a lot of NTs who seem to be unreasonably proud of, and unreasonably desperate to trumpet, their emotional coldness/total lack of emotion/assholery etc. All of them? No. But enough for me to have noticed a pattern, too.

And yes, I completely noticed that many of the responses from NTs (us emotionless, intellectually driven NTs ) basically amounted to a)taking grave offense and b)saying nothing at all regarding the actual point of the OP c)insulting the OP. Objective discussion ftw! /sarcasm

 

[Scott N Denver]

I don't see how these ones are that egregious. I've run across a lot of idiotic leadership, and in my personal time (which is when someone is most likely to be conversing with me about such things), I am likely to say things along those lines.

Merely saying these things is not a sign of immaturity or assholery. Only when they are not true do such phrases reflect poorly on the person who said them. Or if they are said in the inappropriate context (or directly to the person in charge, because they're not constructive). It doesn't seem like that was the context of your conversations, though. It seems like this person said these things to you in the context of a personal conversation.

Yours is one point of view, and understandable from a certain perspective. There are other views, at least some of which are reasonable and/or understandable from other different perspectives. At the least, these seem to me rather dismissive, which will earn one ire from some quarters. Especially in a workplace. Also, I don't think your average or typical person will appreciate being called stupid, a pawn, etc. At the very least, thats not a good way to make friends and influence people. Condescension [sp?] tends to make people not like you [you as in general, not you as in the quoted poster]. I'm also trying to give something of a range of things I've heard said, some may be rather blatant, others might not even seem offensive. Again, I'm trying to span the range.

I'm trying to present reasons or evidence why people can see NT's as assholes. Which isn't to say that everyone will agree with that assessment, but hopefully people will at least maybe understand how other people can arrive at that assessment. In short, I'm trying to constructively contribute to this thread. Maybe I don't need to declare that, but I felt that it would help.

 

[Valuable_Money]

These all came from people that are in their 20's through maybe their 40's. I kid you not.

Considering there all paraphrasings that have been modified to serve your point....

 

[ajblaise]

I don't see how these ones are that egregious. I've run across a lot of idiotic leadership, and in my personal time (which is when someone is most likely to be conversing with me about such things), I am likely to say things along those lines.

Merely saying these things is not a sign of immaturity or assholery. Only when they are not true do such phrases reflect poorly on the person who said them. Or if they are said in an inappropriate context (or directly to the person in charge, because they're not constructive). It doesn't seem like that was the context of your conversations, though. It seems like this person said these things to you in the context of a personal exchange between you (and maybe some other friends/acquaintances).

Yeah I agree. People can deserve to be mocked. I equate assholeishness with the creation of undeserved offensives against people.

 

[Scott N Denver]

Considering there all paraphrasings that have been modified to serve your point....

You don't know that. I've tried to minimize personal distortions. They could almost be actual quotes but might be off by an unimportant word or two [a, and, the, etc]. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if I've actually toned some of them down some, as in less swearing and less uses of insulting words such as "What did those stupid idiots due now. They are all as dumb as Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson. What a bunch of f-cking morons, etc"

 

[Eruca]

Im not sure why I'm an asshole. Wait a minute, I'll stop it.

HHHHHHNNNnnnnnnngggggggggghhh

No...

No It's not working.

 

[Orangey]

Yours is one point of view, and understandable from a certain perspective. There are other views, at least some of which are reasonable and/or understandable from other different perspectives. At the least, these seem to me rather dismissive, which will earn one ire from some quarters. Especially in a workplace. Also, I don't think your average or typical person will appreciate being called stupid, a pawn, etc. At the very least, thats not a good way to make friends and influence people. Condescension [sp?] tends to make people not like you [you as in general, not you as in the quoted poster]. I'm also trying to give something of a range of things I've heard said, some may be rather blatant, others might not even seem offensive. Again, I'm trying to span the range.

I'm trying to present reasons or evidence why people can see NT's as assholes. Which isn't to say that everyone will agree with that assessment, but hopefully people will at least maybe understand how other people can arrive at that assessment. In short, I'm trying to constructively contribute to this thread. Maybe I don't need to declare that, but I felt that it would help.

I agree (and mentioned in my post) that saying these types of things (in that type of way) directly to the person being criticized is indeed a sign of immaturity. There are certainly better ways to deal with people. But if I am venting my frustration to someone I like to talk to, in a personal context, I will not censor myself for the sake of the absent person's feelings. Especially not if my frustrations are warranted.

And "people are my pawns" type comments? These are just trite, and I usually dismiss as immature anyone who uses them.

 

[MacGuffin]

I've long fought the "NTs aren't robots" fight at INTPc...

Most of the time the NT is just young and immature. The older ones get tired of it.

 

[Valuable_Money]

You don't know that. I've tried to minimize personal distortions. They could almost be actual quotes but might be off by an unimportant word or two [a, and, the, etc]. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if I've actually toned some of them down some, as in less swearing and less uses of insulting words such as "What did those stupid idiots due now. They are all as dumb as Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson. What a bunch of f-cking morons, etc"

You remind me of this one girl in the first grade who always tried to make shure everyone else played nice. She grew up and now shes hot

 

[Scott N Denver]

I'll just say this. Someone made this thread, and I'm doing what I can to provide evidence that people can assess and come to their own conclusions about. People's words and actions can be interpreted in many different ways. A number of things that I've heard people say or that I've read, including on this thread, could be reasonably considered by many people who aren't NT as being derisive [sp?], rude, mean, condescending, etc. I would expect that it would behoove NT's to be aware of the things that they do or say that others could see as offensive/_ssholishness and to understand why others might think/feel that way. What NT's do with that information is up to them.

For the record, I've met a lot of NT's, some I thought acted like _ssholes, some I thought did not.

 

[Jaguar]

-"Intelligence is SO not rewarded in our society!"

Childish drivel.

 

[Spartacuss]

Not if that's how you really "feel".

So if the NTs really feel the things they say then they're not assholes, right?

I'm doing my best to quote things, so as to minimize any personal distortions and to let things stand on their own without having to go through my filters first. I'm of the opinion that "people make their own nooses", I'm just publicly recording/declaring what they said. Others will make their evaluations as they will.

Yes they do. And making the evaluations makes them assholes if the evaluations are not kind or popular.

I don't see how these ones are that egregious. I've run across a lot of idiotic leadership, and in my personal time (which is when someone is most likely to be conversing with me about such things), I am likely to say things along those lines.

Merely saying these things is not a sign of immaturity or assholery. Only when they are not true do such phrases reflect poorly on the person who said them. Or if they are said in an inappropriate context (or directly to the person in charge, because they're not constructive). It doesn't seem like that was the context of your conversations, though. It seems like this person said these things to you in the context of a personal exchange between you (and maybe some other friends/acquaintances).

+1.

Yeah I agree. People can deserve to be mocked. I equate assholeishness with the creation of undeserved offensives against people.

That's a far more thoughtful definition than the OP's.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Seriously,

Don't give me this I am so out of touch with my emotions crap. You are all smart people. You understand MBTI. So why, with all your knowledge are you so goddamn proud at your dysfunction and assholery? You would think, if you were a real NT, that you would be ashamed at what you have not perfected.

That's such a general statement. I think if you gave a specific instance we could better explain the NT's assholery. Since we don't have that, I'll expound on what I see.

I'll discuss what I highlighted in bold first:

1) You're making a correlation between intelligence and emotional maturity. There really isn't any reason to think this is so.

2) You may be dealing with a very young or emotionally inexperienced NT.

3) What you think of as pride may just be NT's way of dealing with their insecurity. Listen, we may know we have a general weakness when it comes to handling emotions but for the most part we are comfortable with this. That's why we can make a joke of it and act like it's awesome to be that way.

However - and this is important - when we want or see an opportunity that makes us want to take a risk emotionally and put ourselves out there...we do!

4) Lastly, don't think that since you're an ENTP that's gone unnoticed! Are you sure that these NT's that you're dealing with just aren't trying to press your buttons and get a rise out of you???

 

[proteanmix]

Yeah I agree. People can deserve to be mocked. I equate assholeishness with the creation of undeserved offensives against people.

This isn't directly aimed at you but who decides if it's deserved or not? That's a value judgment not an objective statement of truth. I see more NTs saying because it doesn't make logical sense to them there is no logic but that is not the case. Look at this forum and the causes of people's frustrations. Once again this strikes my funny bone, because if the smart people were really smart would this even be an issue? Wouldn't you have outsmarted everyone and got away from the circle of idiots you're surrounded by? What's that quote about the industrious and the stupid being the most dangerous group of people? Constantly figuring out new ways to annoy the nonstupid people and the nonstupid people fall for it every time!

Most people don't take the time to reach an understanding of why something happens in the manner it does. Just the way some of the NTs have said they don't necessarily know why or what they feel, others may not know immediately why or how something should be done the way it is. It's the same thing but aimed in a different direction. And just as you'd want patience and time to figure out what you feel, can't that same patience be extended to others rather than accusations of mental incompetence and harsh criticism? Is the effort even made? Maybe I've had to recant with my tail tucked between my legs enough at this point to tamp down on that reaction.

 

[Valuable_Money]

I'll just say this. Someone made this thread, and I'm doing what I can to provide evidence that people can assess and come to their own conclusions about. People's words and actions can be interpreted in many different ways. A number of things that I've heard people say or that I've read, including on this thread, could be reasonably considered by many people who aren't NT as being derisive [sp?], rude, mean, condescending, etc. I would expect that it would behoove NT's to be aware of the things that they do or say that others could see as offensive/_ssholishness and to understand why others might think/feel that way. What NT's do with that information is up to them.

For the record, I've met a lot of NT's, some I thought acted like _ssholes, some I thought did not.

J. D. Salinger: The Catcher in the Rye (1)

Read this book.