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  1. #121
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valuable_Money View Post
    I've heard of it. What's special about it or why are you recommending it?

  2. #122
    Senior Member Valuable_Money's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    I've heard of it. What's special about it or why are you recommending it?
    Replace NT with Phonies and you are quite similar to the main character of that book, albeit much more angry than depressed.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh? wgah'nagl fhtagn

  3. #123
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valuable_Money View Post
    Replace NT with Phonies and you are quite similar to the main character of that book, albeit much more angry than depressed.
    I'm sorry but I don't understand. Also, how would you know or be able to evaluate how angry I am or am not?

  4. #124
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
    So if the NTs really feel the things they say then they're not assholes, right?
    My point exactly. Everyone thinks what OTHER people say is wrong. But, their own thoughts, feelings, visions, values, etc, etc are........perfectly valid. I'm right. You're wrong. You're a meany face. I'm not. You're too caught up with your logic. I don't do that. I value feelings.

    Good grief. Do some NT's behave like jerks at times? Sure. I'm sure ALL NT's have things they are working on, me included (and the OP included as well).

    YES, NT's tend to be harsh and critical. Yes. It's a fact. Give the feelers a point on the chalkboard. But, the way we think seems right to us just like the ridiculous things that OTHER TYPES do seem right and just to them.


  5. #125
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This isn't directly aimed at you but who decides if it's deserved or not? That's a value judgment not an objective statement of truth. I see more NTs saying because it doesn't make logical sense to them there is no logic but that is not the case. Look at this forum and the causes of people's frustrations. Once again this strikes my funny bone, because if the smart people were really smart would this even be an issue? Wouldn't you have outsmarted everyone and got away from the circle of idiots you're surrounded by? What's that quote about the industrious and the stupid being the most dangerous group of people? Constantly figuring out new ways to annoy the nonstupid people and the nonstupid people fall for it every time!

    Most people don't take the time to reach an understanding of why something happens in the manner it does. Just the way some of the NTs have said they don't necessarily know why or what they feel, others may not know immediately why or how something should be done the way it is. It's the same thing but aimed in a different direction. And just as you'd want patience and time to figure out what you feel, can't that same patience be extended to others rather than accusations of mental incompetence and harsh criticism? Is the effort even made? Maybe I've had to recant with my tail tucked between my legs enough at this point to tamp down on that reaction.
    Yeah, it's definitely a personal judgment call. Doesn't mean I can't still try to get as close to the truth as I can. I don't really think NTs and their sometimes sardonic tendencies are anything serious. Not the same as actual harsh criticism and accusations.

  6. #126
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    These all came from people that are in their 20's through maybe their 40's. I kid you not.
    I discovered pretty quickly that aggressively insensitive comments don't get anything done and often don't have a lot of merit. Even if the point behind them is valid, unless it is verbally backed up with some kind of evidence statements like that don't have any value. Also it became necessary for me to develop my Fi, which I think helps balance out the "people are stupid" thoughts with a kind of abstract but positive regard for people.

    Also, to the people who pointed out the lack of objectivity...I apologize if my post was one of those...I was trying to explain that while I agreed with the OP that it is a problem, I think the behavior she described is characteristic of immature NTs (I've never seen it in any people I consider to have well developed personalities), and immature people of any type are likely to behave disagreeably. A lot of posters offered plausible explanations.

    (And +1 to proteanmix...who decides who deserves to be mocked?)

  7. #127
    The Architect Alwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I've long fought the "NTs aren't robots" fight at INTPc...

    Most of the time the NT is just young and immature. The older ones get tired of it.
    Comforting words here. I was beginning to suspect that many who identify themselves INTP are actually just rules obsessed, factoid regurgitating drones who read the wikipedia article on INTP, saw a picture of Einstein and said "oh that's definately me!"

  8. #128
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    My point exactly. Everyone thinks what OTHER people say is wrong. But, their own thoughts, feelings, visions, values, etc, etc are........perfectly valid. I'm right. You're wrong. You're a meany face. I'm not. You're too caught up with your logic. I don't do that. I value feelings.

    Good grief. Do some NT's behave like jerks at times? Sure. I'm sure ALL NT's have things they are working on, me included (and the OP included as well).

    YES, NT's tend to be harsh and critical. Yes. Fact. Give the feelers a point on the chalkboard. But, the way we think seems right to us just like the ridiculous things that OTHER TYPES do seem right and just to them.

    NT's and NF's both comprise about~15% of the [I believe US and maybe as well world] population. Whatever and however either type thinks or feels, both groups will generally be evaluated by standards not of their own. The vast majority of leaders [corporate, military, political, etc] are SJ's [STJ's in particular]. Both groups are outnumbered by _SF_'s. Regardless of the legitimacy or lack there of of our approaches and "values/priorities", we will have to "impress" and "answer to" predominantly non-NT-NF people as we go through life, particularly in the work world. It would behoove one to be aware of what they might think of you [you general not you as in poster] and why.

    In response to the title of this thread, lack of [perceived] consideration for others, and to a lesser extent lack of [perceived] concern about others is what I personally think creates a lot of this assessment towards NT's. "You don't care about [me, him, her, whoever], fine then I'm not gonna care about you!" would probably be a good catchphrase to describe that. I think some, especially say SF's, interpret NT words and/or actions as being particularly spiteful and going out of one's way to be mean or hurtful to others. I think that bumps peoples attitudes towards said NT's from "Fine I'm not gonna care about you!" to "that person is such an _sshole!". Of course, NT's don't have a monopoly on such behavior.

  9. #129
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    Huh, there very well may be a few Holden Caulfield's in this thread (main character of The Catcher In The Rye, for those who haven't read it), but Scott N Denver isn't one of the ones coming across as one, imo.

    Btw, Scott, I appreciate your NF perspective here, and I don't think you're coming off as depressed or angry, really.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  10. #130
    wholly charmed Spartacuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    My point exactly. Everyone thinks what OTHER people say is wrong.
    ...
    YES, NT's tend to be harsh and critical. Yes. It's a fact. Give the feelers a point on the chalkboard. But, the way we think seems right to us just like the ridiculous things that OTHER TYPES do seem right and just to them.
    Precisely. Now why can't everybody accept this? I haven't found a greater tendency to assholishness among Ts, but that is perhaps because what I find assholish is different from the OP's view. There are awesome and awful folks of both persuasions.
    Feelers are certainly not exempt from assholishness. There's no shortage here of anti-NT or T criticism. If I had a dime for every time someone cited their F for their special snowflake "niceness" and compassion, I could retire tomorrow. So why is it so irksome and assholish when NTs do it? Is it that they are more cutting in speech when they bash other types?
    Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
    The More You Know the Less You Need. - Aboriginal Saying

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