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  1. #11
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Maybe your INTP friend believes most people who claim to be sooo concerned about the suffering of people millions of miles away make their token contributions and pay lip service while ignoring how they can make the world a much better place by helping those close to them. It is hypocritical because they get on the empathy high horse for people who are so removed while being negligent dicks to people whose lives they could directly improve. They do so because it is easier for them when the objects of their compassion are removed so that the financial and emotional involvement demanded of them will be far lower. Meanwhile their efforts are tilting at windmills (as the problems are systemic) but they don't care, because they've satisfied their consciences that they are good people.
    Yeah, I have found that those who are most likely to adopt global causes and attend rallies that block traffic for miles and wear stupid tshirts and bumper stickers and what have you supporting certain causes a lot of the time have a blind spot to what's in their backyard. How about helping your friends and family? How about volunteering time locally? How about shutting up and sending some money to the starving children instead of "raising awareness" and shifting the responsibility to other people? I just see a lot of irritating hypocrisy and lipservice in the "change the world" people. And I think a lot of folks have a romantic idea of the needy or downtrodden when they don't necessarily know any.

    For my part, I try and help those around me, and I volunteer (or at least I used to before I moved--I need to get back into that) at the local animal shelter. I do contribute to certain charities when I can afford it. I do think if we're blessed with enough resources, we should try and improve the lives of others who aren't so fortunate.
    Something Witty

  2. #12
    The Architect Alwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yeah, I have found that those who are most likely to adopt global causes and attend rallies that block traffic for miles and wear stupid tshirts and bumper stickers and what have you supporting certain causes a lot of the time have a blind spot to what's in their backyard. How about helping your friends and family? How about volunteering time locally? How about shutting up and sending some money to the starving children instead of "raising awareness" and shifting the responsibility to other people? I just see a lot of irritating hypocrisy and lipservice in the "change the world" people. And I think a lot of folks have a romantic idea of the needy or downtrodden when they don't necessarily know any.

    For my part, I try and help those around me, and I volunteer (or at least I used to before I moved--I need to get back into that) at the local animal shelter. I do contribute to certain charities when I can afford it. I do think if we're blessed with enough resources, we should try and improve the lives of others who aren't so fortunate.
    My experience has been the complete opposite of what you described, global activists are far more likely to be local activists as well. I know activists all over the world and cannot recall anyone of them involved in the global justice movement that isn't also involved in local homeless/woman's shelter or community organizer or in any other local humanitarian endeavor. In fact they often run them and invest most of their time and resources go to these local activities, and there are elaborate networks that share information about what works and doesn't at the local level as it is instrumental to the overall goal of global justice. This has greatly improved with the advent of the internet. The global stuff isn't as frequent or as easy to participate, like flying to Europe for a big rally, or going to the World Social Forum.

    Are there any global justice groups near you?

  3. #13
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    I am curious about your thoughts on common themes of conversation with two NT friends of mine, INTP and INTJ.

    The INTP often says that trying to help change the world is useless, so you should only help family or close friends. Don't feed starving people, but instead let them die, and then there will be no more starving people. Etc. Also, he says there will always be as much "evil" as "good" in the world. Though it's realistic that one could be involved in humanitarian projects that don't accomplish much, I find the INTP's view defeatist and I don't agree. What are your opinions? If you take a more middle of the road approach, what type of humanitarian efforts would you consider useful and what would be a waste of time? How would you encourage someone to be smart about choosing a project to "better the world"?
    That's being lazy, although I do believe that someone has to put in his own weight. Bringing knowledge to thrid world countries is good. Bringing MacDonalds to third world countries is not gonna help.

    agriculture solutions, structure and motivation is what third world countries need. You can send food but that won't progress the situation. It will just stall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    On an different note, the INTJ has little patience for anybody, and says that tolerating people is detrimental to one's self. Though foreign to me, the idea does interest me, as we've all seen overly "nice" people who let others walk all over them. What would you consider a healthy level of tolerance for others, and when do you think it becomes unhealthy (whether too much or too little)? I look forward to reading your thoughts.
    Stuck up. To expand on your own being; moderation, toleration and relation are probably most important. If you completely shut yourself off from outside influences. You're only preventing your own evolution. I'm not saying you should tolerate everyone, that would be silly. But it's not a black and white world. So making it a rule not to tolerate people, is pretty unhealthy.


    I disagree with both, but the INTP makes more sense than the INTJ.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #14
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwill View Post
    Well, I certainly agree that humanitarians shouldn't be enabling African teenagers to go out and buy AK-47s, but there is definitely some value in what they do. Bad situations aren't always so simple that they can be solved with tough love.

    The INTP friend sounds like he believes that world hunger will be solved by natural selection. The people who can find food will survive, and that's that. But it's not nearly that simple. Things like wide-spread hunger and AIDS cause instability and violence. They affect the economy and bring about a lot of change. Sending relief workers to third world countries to help alleviate those hunger and AIDS can help restore stability and prevent war and disease from spreading out of control.

    And it's all well and good to say we should give people like Gandhi and Martin Luther King funding after they've been idolized in history books, but the fact is that they were grassroots protesters and humanitarians who were often despised by their contemporary authority figures--the people who had funding to give. The way I see it, these individual humanitarians are trying to make a difference in the world--just like certain Nobel Peace Prize winners--but on a smaller scale.

    As an INTJ, I tend to be something of a cynic, but I can't count the times I've been proven wrong when an idealist has made a leap of faith that I've scoffed at. Therefore, I'm willing to support their endeavors.
    Maybe I was presenting my example a little bit extreme. It was just to get my point across. Obviously I don't think that every native African will buy an AK-47 with his money. I'm actually a huge supporter of micro-credits. They're humanitarian, and also specifically aimed at the goal of making individual citizens financially undependable. While still making a profit to the ones offering the credits.

    As for the famous people reference. What if for instance Tsvangiray's opposition in Zimbabwe would have been successful in obtaining the seat of president. As rich western nation I would heavily support and fund (after he would be elected president) Tsvangiray simply because he is not Mugabe and with the right advice he might actually change something for the better in Zimbabwe.

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