User Tag List

Results 1 to 7 of 7

  1. #1
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default Creative ideas and the need to control

    I pose these questions mainly with ENTJ's in mind (I think), but my reasoning for having them in mind could be off, so I'd really like to hear from all NT's. As an INTP, I have many entrepreneurial ideas, but I often times have trouble extroverting those ideas (i.e. turning them into reality). I'm starting a non-profit corporation and, in time, I'd like to hand partial control over to an ENTJ. I want to handle the behind the scenes things and I want him/her to come on board and handle the actual execution of a lot of things. My "I" and my "P" can, if I allow them, be absolute killers in terms of running any kind of organization. My natural "I" keeps me turned inward and wanting to shy away from people. I'm capable of talking to people, but I watch ENTP's and ENTJ's and I think they're brilliant in many ways. The "P" can be a serious problem as well. I think it does have some positives (flexibilitly, willingness to bounce around when necessary, strange or inconsistent hours can be tolerated, etc.). But, the ENTJ's have that follow-through attribute. They are focused on completion.

    Anyways, I'm not looking for a "puppet" to take orders and run my organization for me. And I don't think ENTJ's fit that mold anyways. The ones I've known are leaders. I'm looking more for a partner with a dynamic mind who will compliment me and who is willing to play a big role in being the "face of the organization" - the one people want to call and deal with and they know that when they deal with this person, things get done. Of course, I will be well-known by the organizations and individuals that we deal with as well (I wouldn't want it any other way, otherwise I'd probably feel like it wasn't my organization anymore), but hopefully you see where I'm going with this. I want ENTJ attributes, along with mine, to come together and lead this organization.

    So, finally, here are some questions. While ENTP's are often associated with having entrepreneurial spirits, ENTJ's are sometimes associated with CEO types. In the scenario I described above, would most ENTJ's fit well into a role like this or would they eventually try to overpower me and more or less "take over" the ship? More than likely an INTP and ENTJ would have at least similar outlooks. I'm not saying we wouldn't have disagreements, just saying that our general outlooks on how things should be done would probably be at least "workable". I have worked with ESTJ's who have tried to take over the ship on me and it just doesn't work. It ends up in a lot of clashing because, I usually don't give in and they seem accustomed to people submitting to their gameplan. NT/NT would seem to work much better. Do you all think ENTJ is the best partnership for what I've described or is there a better type for this role in the organization?

    Thanks for any input!!

  2. #2
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    I'd find yourself an ENFJ, ideally. 2nd choice probably INTJ--they can train themselves to do anything or appear any way; it's uncanny...but they don't have the ENFJ's natural charisma and pull with people...ENFPs have this but are comparatively weak on follow through, just like the ENTP issues you mention above...I blame Ne.

    ENTJ will probably be effective at getting things done but you may find your creativity cramped by focus on productivity. ENTJs have a unique vision and are not afraid to marginalize those who don't subscribe to it--the ends justify the means. Be wary of this before bestowing upon him power equal to or greater than yours.

    On a totally different note, out of left field--you might try an ESFP. That may sound crazy, but they're ridiculously good with on the spot negotiations and they make a terrific sunny, helpful, knowledgeable-about-the-product partner to handle the physical real world maintenance shit that you probably don't care about learning.

    The one I work with seems to be exceptionally responsible; he's even our bookkeeper. If you find one with his priorities straight, they can work wonders together with your NTP perspective.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #3
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    EN
    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'd find yourself an ENFJ, ideally. 2nd choice probably INTJ--they can train themselves to do anything or appear any way; it's uncanny...but they don't have the ENFJ's natural charisma and pull with people...ENFPs have this but are comparatively weak on follow through, just like the ENTP issues you mention above...I blame Ne.
    Hmmm....thinking of the ENFJ's and INTJ's I've known, I'd rather go with an ENFJ. That's actually a really good suggestion.

    ENTJ will probably be effective at getting things done but you may find your creativity cramped by focus on productivity. ENTJs have a unique vision and are not afraid to marginalize those who don't subscribe to it--the ends justify the means. Be wary of this before bestowing upon him power equal to or greater than yours.
    Yeah, this is my concern. I want someone I can work WITH, not someone who wants to turn me into one of their minions - that won't be happening.

    On a totally different note, out of left field--you might try an ESFP. That may sound crazy, but they're ridiculously good with on the spot negotiations and they make a terrific sunny, helpful, knowledgeable-about-the-product partner to handle the physical real world maintenance shit that you probably don't care about learning.

    The one I work with seems to be exceptionally responsible; he's even our bookkeeper. If you find one with his priorities straight, they can work wonders together with your NTP perspective.
    I gave some thought to the ESFP's I've known, and wow - this is also a good suggestion. I actually dated one who knew how to work at work (not just play). Another one is a hard worker, but does like to play a lot. But, yes - all the other stuff rings true for sure.

  4. #4
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,983

    Default

    Honestly, I think you should have a go at running the organization yourself. I think that it may be more comfortable for you to have an extroverted front man, but ultimately you'll learn more if you try yourself. This is true even if the organization fails.


    In you really don't feel up to it, though, I wouldn't advise finding an ENTj. Theoretically, there would be a fairly large overlap in skill set given that your both NTs. You would most likely end up competing for the chief strategic position than anything else. Second, and this is nothing personal, if an ENTj thinks they can do your job better than you, they'll have no qualms about cutting you out.

    If it's really necessary to have some sort of partnership I agree with simulatedworld in that you should look to one of the types whos skill set would complement your own. ENFJs are generally quick, good with people, and wouldn't challenge your ultimate vision. If you're just looking for a good manager you really can't do better than an ESTx.

    Anyways, good luck with your idea. As with most things, the first times always the hardest.

  5. #5
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    You've got to learn the book for business first. After that its what you make of it. To judge yourself by a type you give yourself, will limit your business possibilities.

    Therefore never do it !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    type
    Enneagram
    5
    Socionics
    INFP
    Posts
    963

    Default

    Get an ESTJ to act as your puppet. They will follow orders if they beleive in the cause and see you as the propper authority. But remember, they're S's, so don't confuse them.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    To judge yourself by a type you give yourself, will limit your business possibilities.

    Therefore never do it !
    Preach on, brotha!

Similar Threads

  1. The Need to Reform Our Educational Systems for Boys and Men
    By Cloudpatrol in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 79
    Last Post: 05-18-2016, 04:33 PM
  2. [ENFP] ENFPs - Do you feel the need to constantly (and suddenly) move?
    By Malkavia in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 07-05-2013, 12:52 PM
  3. The SP need to control the environment
    By decrescendo in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-23-2013, 10:46 PM
  4. [Inst] Feeling the need to preserve ones beauty: Is this an Sx/SP and Sp/Sx thing?
    By The Great One in forum Instinctual Subtypes
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 12-01-2012, 05:47 AM
  5. [SJ] SJ and the need for excessive control
    By Snow Turtle in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 01-11-2010, 04:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO