[NT] NT: what do you wish your parents had known about you?

[jenocyde]

LOL. You don't have a 4yo, do you? What I meant was, sometimes, an explanation doesn't suffice for someone who lacks the experience/maturity to grasp the implications of disregarding a reason because they think it's "vewy silly". I guess the trick will be staying 2 steps ahead of her until she's got enough experience under her belt to not juggle steak knives, or whatever it is she's convinced is a great idea.

But I do hear the gist of what you're saying...don't treat her like she's dumb. Explain stuff. Which is cool with me, because my goal is producing an independent-thinking adult anyway-it does her no good for her one lesson of childhood is, "Don't think for yourself".

No I don't have a 4yo and I did know what you meant. I just mean that everything can be explained in a way that is relevant and understandable to the age group. And yes, sometimes physical examples have to be used, hahaha... I'm sure you're already doing an excellent job, since you cared enough to even ask.

 

[Usehername]

1. That I'm not trying to be inconsiderate or annoying, I just have different priorities (scratching my mind's itch).

2. This one was a major source of my teenage behaviour problems (which were impressively minimal for any teen, but still, easily resolvable if they only understood).
Logic is a perfectly valid way to negotiate problem solving. There's 2 parents/4 kids in my family, and I'm the only T. Every little problem was negotiated by catering to feelings and values.
I can play that type of fairness now, but when I was younger, it was impossibly frustrating to try to figure out why no one in my house would solve things fairly.
I just thought they were all dumb until I was mature enough to realize that they simply all saw things similarly to each other but differently from me. I wish they had not always catered to the majority (F type problem solving) but sometimes solved things with dispassionate logic, simply because while I was too young to understand what was going on it was a major source of frustration and any behavior issues I had.

Recent Example: When I took a gap year, my sister lived in our shared nice bedroom and when I moved back she had it all to herself and I was stuck with the basement bedroom. No big deal.
But then when she left for university in another city, my sister cried because she had an emotional attachment to the room itself, so my dad wanted me to let her keep it despite her only being home for summers/holidays.

Then I must have been a little hormonal or bottling up emotions for a long while because I broke down, ranting about how just because I don't share my emotions doesn't mean I don't have any... I had never made a comment about how much it sucked to live in the crappy basement bedroom because it was completely logical for me to live there. Which was the overarching problem--I would suck it up if I could see the logic; everyone else vented their emotions, and decisions would be made on emotions. This made me angry and hindered my rate of maturity because it grated on me over and over and over with daily small decisions.

3. I wish I had been pushed to excel. My family's all about balance, which I value, but I like the rigor of achieving all that I'm capable of, and I'm only learning to develop the self-discipline necessary to do all that.
I think the NT's "competence" need was not properly fed, and in fact, unintentionally repressed by my parents. I have higher self-esteem when I'm really grilling down and working hard for something. I wish I wasn't also having to learn basic self-discipline, because I was allowed to coast through school. My parents didn't even look at my grades, they just saw the honour roll certificate and said good job we're proud of you, and I didn't develop any good habits because I only worked hard enough to stay on the honour roll. They didn't push high standards on me, which as an NT I think is healthy (presuming it's in the right realm--I plan on entering academia; high standards in sports or art or whatever your kid is interested in would be helpful, IMO).

And while I would agree with the "because I said so" being a terrible phrase to use, I think sometimes it's okay to simply say "I can't explain why to you at this point, I need you to trust me on this one, can you please honour that." So long as that's used sparingly, respectfully, and you soften that blow with a small gesture of recognizing our maturity (like letting us in on something we normally wouldn't be allowed to partake in, or telling us something else that normally we'd be kept in the dark about) that'd have been cool.

 

[jenocyde]

3. I wish I had been pushed to excel. My family's all about balance, which I value, but I like the rigor of achieving all that I'm capable of, and I'm only learning to develop the self-discipline necessary to do all that.
I think the NT's "competence" need was not properly fed, and in fact, unintentionally repressed by my parents. I have higher self-esteem when I'm really grilling down and working hard for something. I wish I wasn't also having to learn basic self-discipline, because I was allowed to coast through school. My parents didn't even look at my grades, they just saw the honour roll certificate and said good job we're proud of you, and I didn't develop any good habits because I only worked hard enough to stay on the honour roll. They didn't push high standards on me, which as an NT I think is healthy (presuming it's in the right realm--I plan on entering academia; high standards in sports or art or whatever your kid is interested in would be helpful, IMO).

And while I would agree with the "because I said so" being a terrible phrase to use, I think sometimes it's okay to simply say "I can't explain why to you at this point, I need you to trust me on this one, can you please honour that." So long as that's used sparingly, respectfully, and you soften that blow with a small gesture of recognizing our maturity (like letting us in on something we normally wouldn't be allowed to partake in, or telling us something else that normally we'd be kept in the dark about) that'd have been cool.

and

 

[Fluffywolf]

I suppose I just had good parents, when I read some peoples stories here. :/

I was given a whole lot of freedom. I was raised to be independant. I was taught right from wrong very consistently and clear. My parents were always obvious and clear about the rules.

As stubborn as I was, they always knew how to make sense to me. Always outwitted me. And so obviously, that I started to rebel back for the sake of trying to outwit them. Which usually backfired.

 

[substitute]

The biggest thing I wish they knew was that "because I said so" is never an answer to a question, and I lost a little more respect for them every time they said it. Still do.

Ah, now I used to say this as well, before I had my own kids. And after having them, I still have always made an effort to give proper answers with good reasons and stuff.

The trouble is, this can make a rod for your back in these ways:

1. Sometimes the explanation really is just too much for a child to understand, as to understand my reasons you'd need to be an adult with more life experience.

2. A lot of the time, even when you do explain things, the child hasn't the wisdom to see your point, and they still hugely resent and disagree with your reasoning.

3. Sometimes, the decision isn't up for negotiation. Explaining it only creates the expectation in the child that it's therefore debatable, that they have a say in the matter. And quite often, they don't, for good reasons.

What's happened now is that whenever I want anything done with my kids, I have a barrage of bullshit to wade through and they will never just do as they're told, no matter how all their lives, I've demonstrated that my "orders" are fair and there for a good reason, and they've good reason to trust me occasionally without asking questions, they still always do, and it can be extremely tiring to have kids that are so extremely argumentative and not used to simply doing as they're told occasionally.

So, I think that sometimes, I should've just done the "cos I say so" routine.

 

[Fluffywolf]

My parents usually used "Because I am teaching you what it's like to be responsible." or other such remarks that refer to teaching stuff. I always found that intruiging.

My older brother used to say "Because I said so." a lot. That only made me rebel further.

 

[Ulaes]

that female intp doesnt equal closet lesbian

 

[Shimmy]

Here's something I liked about my dad, but even more greatly about my granddad and my uncle.

They would always explain how things work if I asked them. When I was only 7 years old I asked my granddad how EVERYTHING was made. Being the NT he was, he proceeded to tell me about matter, molecules, atoms and even how those were build up out of protons, neutrons and electrons. He showed my Mendeljevs table and was completely able to explain to me how the atoms on there were arranged based on the number of protons and electrons. He told me what Isotopes are and went on to tell me how Nuclear fission and fusion worked to form different atoms out of each other.

Basically, he taught me two semesters of high school level chemistry at the age of 7 in just one afternoon and I got and understood every single word of it. My classmates on elementary school didn't even believed in the entire concept when I told them of this knowledge I had found out. My teacher was fascinated by how much knowledge of the subject I had (way more then her), and only had gathered over one weekend.

 

[jenocyde]

Sub, there is no doubt that I would never want to have to keep justifying myself to a child either. I agree with you and the OP - but this thread is about what I wish my parents had known. There is no perfection in any perspective...

 

[MonkeyGrass]

I suppose I just had good parents, when I read some peoples stories here. :/

I was given a whole lot of freedom. I was raised to be independant. I was taught right from wrong very consistently and clear. My parents were always obvious and clear about the rules.

As stubborn as I was, they always knew how to make sense to me. Always outwitted me. And so obviously, that I started to rebel back for the sake of trying to outwit them. Which usually backfired.

I hope we're that good. As a INFJ/INTJ team, we have the reasoning/step ahead of them thing decently covered. Sounds like you had some stellar folks!

Shimmy- how cool! You've basically described my dh and his think-alike grandad...two of my favorite people.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

My parents usually used "Because I am teaching you what it's like to be responsible." or other such remarks that refer to teaching stuff. I always found that intruiging.

"I can't explain why to you at this point, I need you to trust me on this one, can you please honour that."

Love these..they sound so respectful. *jotting notes*

 

[substitute]

I wonder if anyone's actually tried saying to the average kid "because it teaches you to be responsible", and actually got an answer back that suggests they comprehend and appreciate it!

Fact is, kids think they know it all and they know dick. They think you know dick, however much you know and show you know. Often, they refuse to listen or disagree just on principle.

Most kids with a healthy spirit will wave a dismissive hand or roll their eyes when told or having it suggested in any way, that they should just submit to authority because someone is older and wiser and knows better. If there's something they can't see, they totally think it's cos it's not there.

 

[Cachao]

3. I wish I had been pushed to excel. My family's all about balance, which I value, but I like the rigor of achieving all that I'm capable of, and I'm only learning to develop the self-discipline necessary to do all that.
I think the NT's "competence" need was not properly fed, and in fact, unintentionally repressed by my parents. I have higher self-esteem when I'm really grilling down and working hard for something. I wish I wasn't also having to learn basic self-discipline, because I was allowed to coast through school. My parents didn't even look at my grades, they just saw the honour roll certificate and said good job we're proud of you, and I didn't develop any good habits because I only worked hard enough to stay on the honour roll. They didn't push high standards on me, which as an NT I think is healthy (presuming it's in the right realm--I plan on entering academia; high standards in sports or art or whatever your kid is interested in would be helpful, IMO).

Major +1

The Fs in my family (especially my mom) seem allergic to this concept of personal excellence in a field of study / discipline. I've gone through various stages of dedication to my musical growth (like 5 hours of practice /day), and everyone in my family tries to reel me back. This is so frustrating... especially as a P. It's like I find something I like, and seem to excel at... why are you trying to distract me in an *effort* to make me more well-rounded? My P has taken care of that my entire life, thank you.

Thankfully, my ISTJ dad has REALLY gotten into road biking recently, so he seems to relate to me now (he noted one day I haven't been working as hard lately). He is INTENSE in his training, and perfectly on cue, my mom has bickered about his biking dedication constantly. This is one of the elements to the T/F disconnect, obviously.

 

[violet_crown]

It's difficult to say. I think that most of the guidelines and rules that I hated most about my parents were so I'd be able to function in society period. At the same time, I figured out early on that there was a lot about myself that I'd never really be able to share with my parents. Most of my conflicts were with my STj father, who didn't really have a lot of patients for my ideas or theories. He wanted practical things handled, and if I couldn't take care of those there was little I could say that he had time for.

We're not traditional girls. I preferred pants to dresses. Model airplanes to barbies. I was constantly getting into trouble at school. Got into fights with boys. Was basically disinterested in anyones agenda but my own. I got more civilized as I grew up, but the basic personality doesn't change. My parents provided a loving and secure home, more or less gave me space, and made sure I didn't do anything too potentially life threatening. All told, I couldn't ask for much more.

Also, I considered a beating a severe violation of my physical being and still hold animosity toward my parents for having done so. Not saying you would do that though

Hmm, yeah I got beaten as a kid too. Let me say this about that: ultimately, you are doing more harm than good. For me at least, for any given scenario it simply became a part of the risk assessment for a certain course of action to be weighed against potential reward. The long term effect is that consequences of any sort really mean little to me if I want something enough. Pain goes away, life moves on. You'll end up having to increasingly up the ante, which as a feeler might just be harder on you.

In the end, you'll have a kid on your hands who you have even less of a hold over and who resents you enough that she might not have as much compunction about maneuvering you. Pushed too far, she'll detach from you totally.

 

[Provoker]

I spent the first half of my life getting into trouble and constantly being told that I was a little bastard that did rotten things and had "a real mean streak." I've spent the second half of my life proving to myself and others that the general interpretation formulated by people in the first half was incorrect. Maybe I'm someting of a romantic, but I aliken myself to the Count of Monte Cristo. Over the last years, I've been working away in my cave making accomplishments a reality. It started with going to a high school for the performing arts (music) back in 1999, while pursuing boxing on the side and at one point being ranked one in Canada for my age/weight category. I just finished my BA this year and start an MA in September at the most prestigeous school in the country. That will be followed by law school which I've already accepted and deferred. The point is that now my time has come, and I look with irony and mockery on all those who doubted. Now, if you ask my dad, he'll say I changed and there is a certain credibility to this position, yet I think if anyone cared to look there has been continuity all along even if they didn't see it until I made it so blatantly obvious for them. Interestingly, there are still members in my family who doubt--even though some are proud. Doubters exhibit a schademfraud element in it inasfar as they long to see the disgrace of a decent man. Like the people who went not to see Muhammed Ali win, but to see him lose. That's alright, it keeps me on top of my game.

 

[substitute]

have you ever read the book? he's not a romantic character, he's twisted and sinister and totally loses the plot the more the book goes on... not like the tragic romantic the movies portray...

Yeah I wish my parents had pushed me too. I pushed myself more than any kid could be expected to, but I know I would've been able to pwn so much more if I'd had more external discipline.

 

[Nighthawk]

What's happened now is that whenever I want anything done with my kids, I have a barrage of bullshit to wade through and they will never just do as they're told, no matter how all their lives, I've demonstrated that my "orders" are fair and there for a good reason, and they've good reason to trust me occasionally without asking questions, they still always do, and it can be extremely tiring to have kids that are so extremely argumentative and not used to simply doing as they're told occasionally.

So, I think that sometimes, I should've just done the "cos I say so" routine.

I had the exact same problem with my ESFP step-daughter. She would use any leverage to get her way, and asking me why was usually a stall tactic to try to get that leverage. There was no reasoning with her short of consequences of actions ... usually depriving her of some priviledge for misbehaving. She still has that problem today and has burned many bridges. Not sure what her mother and I could have done to change things.

My INTP son on the other hand was a big fan of a logical answer. When he asked why, and I gave an answer that made sense to him, the matter was settled. He never tried to use it as leverage. I don't think it cause any animosity ... at least none that he has ever mentioned.

 

[Provoker]

have you ever read the book? he's not a romantic character, he's twisted and sinister and totally loses the plot the more the book goes on... not like the tragic romantic the movies portray...

Well that changes everything! Sigh

 

[Shimmy]

I had the exact same problem with my ESFP step-daughter. She would use any leverage to get her way, and asking me why was usually a stall tactic to try to get that leverage. There was no reasoning with her short of consequences of actions ... usually depriving her of some priviledge for misbehaving. She still has that problem today and has burned many bridges. Not sure what her mother and I could have done to change things.

My INTP son on the other hand was a big fan of a logical answer. When he asked why, and I gave an answer that made sense to him, the matter was settled. He never tried to use it as leverage. I don't think it cause any animosity ... at least none that he has ever mentioned.

Yes, I think your stile of parenting should depend heavily on the type of kids you have. However I think that your type is determind for a large part at how you raise your kids in their first years of life as well and that raising your kid in a given way will make that he has a bigger chance of turning out a specific type. Somebody should actually study this though. I think it's is an interesting theory but I don't know anything about parenting.

 

[substitute]

I had the exact same problem with my ESFP step-daughter. She would use any leverage to get her way, and asking me why was usually a stall tactic to try to get that leverage. There was no reasoning with her short of consequences of actions ... usually depriving her of some priviledge for misbehaving. She still has that problem today and has burned many bridges. Not sure what her mother and I could have done to change things.

My INTP son on the other hand was a big fan of a logical answer. When he asked why, and I gave an answer that made sense to him, the matter was settled. He never tried to use it as leverage. I don't think it cause any animosity ... at least none that he has ever mentioned.

Yeah... I've got an ESFJ that just twists whatever you say as an explanation into something she can burst into tears over, and an ENTP that is always looking for leverage. Chip off the old block

I thing parenting ExxP's must be one of the most frustrating things in the universe, and I say that with experience on both ends!