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  1. #51
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    My parents usually used "Because I am teaching you what it's like to be responsible." or other such remarks that refer to teaching stuff. I always found that intruiging.
    "I can't explain why to you at this point, I need you to trust me on this one, can you please honour that."
    Love these..they sound so respectful. *jotting notes*
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  2. #52
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I wonder if anyone's actually tried saying to the average kid "because it teaches you to be responsible", and actually got an answer back that suggests they comprehend and appreciate it!

    Fact is, kids think they know it all and they know dick. They think you know dick, however much you know and show you know. Often, they refuse to listen or disagree just on principle.

    Most kids with a healthy spirit will wave a dismissive hand or roll their eyes when told or having it suggested in any way, that they should just submit to authority because someone is older and wiser and knows better. If there's something they can't see, they totally think it's cos it's not there.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #53
    Junior Member Cachao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    3. I wish I had been pushed to excel. My family's all about balance, which I value, but I like the rigor of achieving all that I'm capable of, and I'm only learning to develop the self-discipline necessary to do all that.
    I think the NT's "competence" need was not properly fed, and in fact, unintentionally repressed by my parents. I have higher self-esteem when I'm really grilling down and working hard for something. I wish I wasn't also having to learn basic self-discipline, because I was allowed to coast through school. My parents didn't even look at my grades, they just saw the honour roll certificate and said good job we're proud of you, and I didn't develop any good habits because I only worked hard enough to stay on the honour roll. They didn't push high standards on me, which as an NT I think is healthy (presuming it's in the right realm--I plan on entering academia; high standards in sports or art or whatever your kid is interested in would be helpful, IMO).
    Major +1

    The Fs in my family (especially my mom) seem allergic to this concept of personal excellence in a field of study / discipline. I've gone through various stages of dedication to my musical growth (like 5 hours of practice /day), and everyone in my family tries to reel me back. This is so frustrating... especially as a P. It's like I find something I like, and seem to excel at... why are you trying to distract me in an *effort* to make me more well-rounded? My P has taken care of that my entire life, thank you.

    Thankfully, my ISTJ dad has REALLY gotten into road biking recently, so he seems to relate to me now (he noted one day I haven't been working as hard lately). He is INTENSE in his training, and perfectly on cue, my mom has bickered about his biking dedication constantly. This is one of the elements to the T/F disconnect, obviously.

  4. #54
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    It's difficult to say. I think that most of the guidelines and rules that I hated most about my parents were so I'd be able to function in society period. At the same time, I figured out early on that there was a lot about myself that I'd never really be able to share with my parents. Most of my conflicts were with my STj father, who didn't really have a lot of patients for my ideas or theories. He wanted practical things handled, and if I couldn't take care of those there was little I could say that he had time for.

    We're not traditional girls. I preferred pants to dresses. Model airplanes to barbies. I was constantly getting into trouble at school. Got into fights with boys. Was basically disinterested in anyones agenda but my own. I got more civilized as I grew up, but the basic personality doesn't change. My parents provided a loving and secure home, more or less gave me space, and made sure I didn't do anything too potentially life threatening. All told, I couldn't ask for much more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    Also, I considered a beating a severe violation of my physical being and still hold animosity toward my parents for having done so. Not saying you would do that though
    Hmm, yeah I got beaten as a kid too. Let me say this about that: ultimately, you are doing more harm than good. For me at least, for any given scenario it simply became a part of the risk assessment for a certain course of action to be weighed against potential reward. The long term effect is that consequences of any sort really mean little to me if I want something enough. Pain goes away, life moves on. You'll end up having to increasingly up the ante, which as a feeler might just be harder on you.

    In the end, you'll have a kid on your hands who you have even less of a hold over and who resents you enough that she might not have as much compunction about maneuvering you. Pushed too far, she'll detach from you totally.

  5. #55
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    I spent the first half of my life getting into trouble and constantly being told that I was a little bastard that did rotten things and had "a real mean streak." I've spent the second half of my life proving to myself and others that the general interpretation formulated by people in the first half was incorrect. Maybe I'm someting of a romantic, but I aliken myself to the Count of Monte Cristo. Over the last years, I've been working away in my cave making accomplishments a reality. It started with going to a high school for the performing arts (music) back in 1999, while pursuing boxing on the side and at one point being ranked one in Canada for my age/weight category. I just finished my BA this year and start an MA in September at the most prestigeous school in the country. That will be followed by law school which I've already accepted and deferred. The point is that now my time has come, and I look with irony and mockery on all those who doubted. Now, if you ask my dad, he'll say I changed and there is a certain credibility to this position, yet I think if anyone cared to look there has been continuity all along even if they didn't see it until I made it so blatantly obvious for them. Interestingly, there are still members in my family who doubt--even though some are proud. Doubters exhibit a schademfraud element in it inasfar as they long to see the disgrace of a decent man. Like the people who went not to see Muhammed Ali win, but to see him lose. That's alright, it keeps me on top of my game.

  6. #56
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    have you ever read the book? he's not a romantic character, he's twisted and sinister and totally loses the plot the more the book goes on... not like the tragic romantic the movies portray...

    Yeah I wish my parents had pushed me too. I pushed myself more than any kid could be expected to, but I know I would've been able to pwn so much more if I'd had more external discipline.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #57
    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    What's happened now is that whenever I want anything done with my kids, I have a barrage of bullshit to wade through and they will never just do as they're told, no matter how all their lives, I've demonstrated that my "orders" are fair and there for a good reason, and they've good reason to trust me occasionally without asking questions, they still always do, and it can be extremely tiring to have kids that are so extremely argumentative and not used to simply doing as they're told occasionally.

    So, I think that sometimes, I should've just done the "cos I say so" routine.
    I had the exact same problem with my ESFP step-daughter. She would use any leverage to get her way, and asking me why was usually a stall tactic to try to get that leverage. There was no reasoning with her short of consequences of actions ... usually depriving her of some priviledge for misbehaving. She still has that problem today and has burned many bridges. Not sure what her mother and I could have done to change things.

    My INTP son on the other hand was a big fan of a logical answer. When he asked why, and I gave an answer that made sense to him, the matter was settled. He never tried to use it as leverage. I don't think it cause any animosity ... at least none that he has ever mentioned.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    have you ever read the book? he's not a romantic character, he's twisted and sinister and totally loses the plot the more the book goes on... not like the tragic romantic the movies portray...
    Well that changes everything! Sigh

  9. #59
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    I had the exact same problem with my ESFP step-daughter. She would use any leverage to get her way, and asking me why was usually a stall tactic to try to get that leverage. There was no reasoning with her short of consequences of actions ... usually depriving her of some priviledge for misbehaving. She still has that problem today and has burned many bridges. Not sure what her mother and I could have done to change things.

    My INTP son on the other hand was a big fan of a logical answer. When he asked why, and I gave an answer that made sense to him, the matter was settled. He never tried to use it as leverage. I don't think it cause any animosity ... at least none that he has ever mentioned.
    Yes, I think your stile of parenting should depend heavily on the type of kids you have. However I think that your type is determind for a large part at how you raise your kids in their first years of life as well and that raising your kid in a given way will make that he has a bigger chance of turning out a specific type. Somebody should actually study this though. I think it's is an interesting theory but I don't know anything about parenting.

  10. #60
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    I had the exact same problem with my ESFP step-daughter. She would use any leverage to get her way, and asking me why was usually a stall tactic to try to get that leverage. There was no reasoning with her short of consequences of actions ... usually depriving her of some priviledge for misbehaving. She still has that problem today and has burned many bridges. Not sure what her mother and I could have done to change things.

    My INTP son on the other hand was a big fan of a logical answer. When he asked why, and I gave an answer that made sense to him, the matter was settled. He never tried to use it as leverage. I don't think it cause any animosity ... at least none that he has ever mentioned.
    Yeah... I've got an ESFJ that just twists whatever you say as an explanation into something she can burst into tears over, and an ENTP that is always looking for leverage. Chip off the old block

    I thing parenting ExxP's must be one of the most frustrating things in the universe, and I say that with experience on both ends!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

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