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  1. #41
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    LOL. You don't have a 4yo, do you? What I meant was, sometimes, an explanation doesn't suffice for someone who lacks the experience/maturity to grasp the implications of disregarding a reason because they think it's "vewy silly". I guess the trick will be staying 2 steps ahead of her until she's got enough experience under her belt to not juggle steak knives, or whatever it is she's convinced is a great idea.

    But I do hear the gist of what you're saying...don't treat her like she's dumb. Explain stuff. Which is cool with me, because my goal is producing an independent-thinking adult anyway-it does her no good for her one lesson of childhood is, "Don't think for yourself".
    No I don't have a 4yo and I did know what you meant. I just mean that everything can be explained in a way that is relevant and understandable to the age group. And yes, sometimes physical examples have to be used, hahaha... I'm sure you're already doing an excellent job, since you cared enough to even ask.

  2. #42
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    1. That I'm not trying to be inconsiderate or annoying, I just have different priorities (scratching my mind's itch).

    2. This one was a major source of my teenage behaviour problems (which were impressively minimal for any teen, but still, easily resolvable if they only understood).
    Logic is a perfectly valid way to negotiate problem solving. There's 2 parents/4 kids in my family, and I'm the only T. Every little problem was negotiated by catering to feelings and values.
    I can play that type of fairness now, but when I was younger, it was impossibly frustrating to try to figure out why no one in my house would solve things fairly.
    I just thought they were all dumb until I was mature enough to realize that they simply all saw things similarly to each other but differently from me. I wish they had not always catered to the majority (F type problem solving) but sometimes solved things with dispassionate logic, simply because while I was too young to understand what was going on it was a major source of frustration and any behavior issues I had.

    Recent Example: When I took a gap year, my sister lived in our shared nice bedroom and when I moved back she had it all to herself and I was stuck with the basement bedroom. No big deal.
    But then when she left for university in another city, my sister cried because she had an emotional attachment to the room itself, so my dad wanted me to let her keep it despite her only being home for summers/holidays.

    Then I must have been a little hormonal or bottling up emotions for a long while because I broke down, ranting about how just because I don't share my emotions doesn't mean I don't have any... I had never made a comment about how much it sucked to live in the crappy basement bedroom because it was completely logical for me to live there. Which was the overarching problem--I would suck it up if I could see the logic; everyone else vented their emotions, and decisions would be made on emotions. This made me angry and hindered my rate of maturity because it grated on me over and over and over with daily small decisions.

    3. I wish I had been pushed to excel. My family's all about balance, which I value, but I like the rigor of achieving all that I'm capable of, and I'm only learning to develop the self-discipline necessary to do all that.
    I think the NT's "competence" need was not properly fed, and in fact, unintentionally repressed by my parents. I have higher self-esteem when I'm really grilling down and working hard for something. I wish I wasn't also having to learn basic self-discipline, because I was allowed to coast through school. My parents didn't even look at my grades, they just saw the honour roll certificate and said good job we're proud of you, and I didn't develop any good habits because I only worked hard enough to stay on the honour roll. They didn't push high standards on me, which as an NT I think is healthy (presuming it's in the right realm--I plan on entering academia; high standards in sports or art or whatever your kid is interested in would be helpful, IMO).

    And while I would agree with the "because I said so" being a terrible phrase to use, I think sometimes it's okay to simply say "I can't explain why to you at this point, I need you to trust me on this one, can you please honour that." So long as that's used sparingly, respectfully, and you soften that blow with a small gesture of recognizing our maturity (like letting us in on something we normally wouldn't be allowed to partake in, or telling us something else that normally we'd be kept in the dark about) that'd have been cool.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #43
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post

    3. I wish I had been pushed to excel. My family's all about balance, which I value, but I like the rigor of achieving all that I'm capable of, and I'm only learning to develop the self-discipline necessary to do all that.
    I think the NT's "competence" need was not properly fed, and in fact, unintentionally repressed by my parents. I have higher self-esteem when I'm really grilling down and working hard for something. I wish I wasn't also having to learn basic self-discipline, because I was allowed to coast through school. My parents didn't even look at my grades, they just saw the honour roll certificate and said good job we're proud of you, and I didn't develop any good habits because I only worked hard enough to stay on the honour roll. They didn't push high standards on me, which as an NT I think is healthy (presuming it's in the right realm--I plan on entering academia; high standards in sports or art or whatever your kid is interested in would be helpful, IMO).

    And while I would agree with the "because I said so" being a terrible phrase to use, I think sometimes it's okay to simply say "I can't explain why to you at this point, I need you to trust me on this one, can you please honour that." So long as that's used sparingly, respectfully, and you soften that blow with a small gesture of recognizing our maturity (like letting us in on something we normally wouldn't be allowed to partake in, or telling us something else that normally we'd be kept in the dark about) that'd have been cool.
    and

  4. #44
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I suppose I just had good parents, when I read some peoples stories here. :/

    I was given a whole lot of freedom. I was raised to be independant. I was taught right from wrong very consistently and clear. My parents were always obvious and clear about the rules.

    As stubborn as I was, they always knew how to make sense to me. Always outwitted me. And so obviously, that I started to rebel back for the sake of trying to outwit them. Which usually backfired. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #45
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    The biggest thing I wish they knew was that "because I said so" is never an answer to a question, and I lost a little more respect for them every time they said it. Still do.
    Ah, now I used to say this as well, before I had my own kids. And after having them, I still have always made an effort to give proper answers with good reasons and stuff.

    The trouble is, this can make a rod for your back in these ways:

    1. Sometimes the explanation really is just too much for a child to understand, as to understand my reasons you'd need to be an adult with more life experience.

    2. A lot of the time, even when you do explain things, the child hasn't the wisdom to see your point, and they still hugely resent and disagree with your reasoning.

    3. Sometimes, the decision isn't up for negotiation. Explaining it only creates the expectation in the child that it's therefore debatable, that they have a say in the matter. And quite often, they don't, for good reasons.

    What's happened now is that whenever I want anything done with my kids, I have a barrage of bullshit to wade through and they will never just do as they're told, no matter how all their lives, I've demonstrated that my "orders" are fair and there for a good reason, and they've good reason to trust me occasionally without asking questions, they still always do, and it can be extremely tiring to have kids that are so extremely argumentative and not used to simply doing as they're told occasionally.

    So, I think that sometimes, I should've just done the "cos I say so" routine.
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  6. #46
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    My parents usually used "Because I am teaching you what it's like to be responsible." or other such remarks that refer to teaching stuff. I always found that intruiging.

    My older brother used to say "Because I said so." a lot. That only made me rebel further. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #47
    loopy Ulaes's Avatar
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    that female intp doesnt equal closet lesbian

  8. #48
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Here's something I liked about my dad, but even more greatly about my granddad and my uncle.

    They would always explain how things work if I asked them. When I was only 7 years old I asked my granddad how EVERYTHING was made. Being the NT he was, he proceeded to tell me about matter, molecules, atoms and even how those were build up out of protons, neutrons and electrons. He showed my Mendeljevs table and was completely able to explain to me how the atoms on there were arranged based on the number of protons and electrons. He told me what Isotopes are and went on to tell me how Nuclear fission and fusion worked to form different atoms out of each other.

    Basically, he taught me two semesters of high school level chemistry at the age of 7 in just one afternoon and I got and understood every single word of it. My classmates on elementary school didn't even believed in the entire concept when I told them of this knowledge I had found out. My teacher was fascinated by how much knowledge of the subject I had (way more then her), and only had gathered over one weekend.

  9. #49
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Sub, there is no doubt that I would never want to have to keep justifying myself to a child either. I agree with you and the OP - but this thread is about what I wish my parents had known. There is no perfection in any perspective...

  10. #50
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I suppose I just had good parents, when I read some peoples stories here. :/

    I was given a whole lot of freedom. I was raised to be independant. I was taught right from wrong very consistently and clear. My parents were always obvious and clear about the rules.

    As stubborn as I was, they always knew how to make sense to me. Always outwitted me. And so obviously, that I started to rebel back for the sake of trying to outwit them. Which usually backfired. :P
    I hope we're that good. As a INFJ/INTJ team, we have the reasoning/step ahead of them thing decently covered. Sounds like you had some stellar folks!

    Shimmy- how cool! You've basically described my dh and his think-alike grandad...two of my favorite people.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

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