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  1. #21
    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    How strange - I found it... strangely amusing! I always felt like it was a sorta game of chance, when I did something I knew was forbidden or would get me a beating, I did it in the full knowledge, and if I got caught, you know, it's a fair cop, and I'd take it with a weird kinda combination of like, yeah, fucker, this hurts! and at the same time, just laughing inwardly at the situation, like fair enough, you got me this time, but you still don't know about the other stuff I did, and there's more to come!

    I even remember some of the beatings fondly and still laugh to myself when I think of them, the reasons often are funny, and I hold no resentment at all. I'm glad they did beat me, it taught me about boundaries and I don't think any other way would've been effective with me at the time, I was just too oblivious to others and their feelings and stuff, for any kind of soft approach to work on me, I'd have just taken them for saps and played them even harder, if the threat of a beating hadn't been there.
    Wow, that's interesting. I wonder why it was so different for me. Perhaps because I wasn't trying to break any rules but still got a beating for asking why I needed to do something.

    Later in my adolescence I did consider some of them from my mother funny, as she really didn't have the strength to cause much pain. I was still fearful of a backhand or closed fist punch from my father though.

  2. #22
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post

    Also, I think parents can also hurt children by telling them "You are just the SMARTEST, BEST ORGANIZER around. You're my little organizer." Or, "you are just the best student! So smart at school!" Positive feedback is great, but in my case (and other people I know), if you only heard positive feedback in one or two areas of life, then you can easily grow up thinking that you will only be successful by using those attributes. I grew up thinking that I had to get my Ph.D. and had to do something in academia, because all I ever heard was how smart I was in the classroom and with books, but in every other area of life, I was a lame-tard. But, it took my 10 years of adulthood to realize, I don't really give a hoot about academia. Am I capable of kicking butt in academia if I applied myself? Sure. Is it the thing I want to do in life? No.
    +1

    Yes, this is extremely good advice! I got so sick to death of everyone telling me I was "university material" and how it would be such a crime if I didn't stay on and do loads of formal qualifications, the pressure was immense... my response? To drop out, then spend the next 15 years resentful of what I saw as the social forces that made me look and feel like a failure because of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    Wow, that's interesting. I wonder why it was so different for me. Perhaps because I wasn't trying to break any rules but still got a beating for asking why I needed to do something.

    Later in my adolescence I did consider some of them from my mother funny, as she really didn't have the strength to cause much pain. I was still fearful of a backhand or closed fist punch from my father though.
    I dunno... I wasn't trying to break rules as such. I was just doing the things I wanted to do, and didn't care if that involved rule breaking along the way. I wasn't trying to be badass... just following my curiosity

    If you got a beating for asking a question... that might be a hint about why our experiences were different. Looking back, and even at the time, much as it hurt, I could always see that it was fair. I always knew why I was being punished, and that it was a fair cop, basically. I didn't get punished for things I said, unless they were very obvious like cursing or insulting or whatever. It was always and only for things I did.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  3. #23
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    All in all, I think my parents did a pretty good job - but if there was one thing that, even looking back now, annoys me, is their tendency to have taken others' word over mine (not an issue now that I'm an adult - or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof ), or not concern themselves at all with what I wanted. For example - if a teacher were to say "Kelric spends class time talking instead of doing his schoolwork" - they would accept that in the harshest manner possible and not even ask for my side of the story - which was (quite honestly) that my work was already done (and that I was talking to people who also had their work done). Similar stories in other circumstances. They cared very much about me, my future, etc. - but not really what I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Absolutely. It is the single most frustrating, infuriating, insulting and exasperating thing that a person can do to me, to give their own value to the words I choose so very carefully to express EXACTLY what I mean.
    Oh, absolutely. That and the "You think <insert something completely wrong here>" - and then getting all wound up about it without listening to hear what I *actually* think.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Also, I think parents can also hurt children by telling them "You are just the SMARTEST, BEST ORGANIZER around. You're my little organizer." Or, "you are just the best student! So smart at school!" Positive feedback is great, but in my case (and other people I know), if you only heard positive feedback in one or two areas of life, then you can easily grow up thinking that you will only be successful by using those attributes.
    Very true. It can also steer you into focusing only on those things that you're good at - and sooner or later you may have trouble dealing with things that you *aren't* so good at. Personal experience in spades there.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #24
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    yeah, I also hated that my mother would never listen to anything I said unless I "calmed down". You know, like I'm upset, I feel like I've been wronged, and yet somehow I've got to push all that under in a heroic and precocious act of stoicism for a 9 year old, in order to calmly and Britishly explain my problem, so that she can then say an incredibly useful "never mind, it'll be alright", and then we don't talk about it again, otherwise I'm "going on". Doesn't matter that my problem wasn't discussed, no resolution found, nothing achieved, no solution - she's listened and I should be happy with that.

    I'm not sure whether that's Fe speak or just F speak in general... anything to avoid a confrontation? Even if the anger clearly isn't directed at you? Or... because you appreciate empathy and validation over practical advice and solutions, you assume I do too? Well - I don't!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
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    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  5. #25
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I can't speak for SFs but I do know that NFs are big on getting the problem discussed back and forth and finding both resolution and solution. NFPs might be bigger on avoiding the confrontation, but most NFJs won't avoid confrontation if it is likely to be helpful.

  6. #26
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I would have liked for my father to value my strong "T" as a child. Instead, I was constantly made out to be a monster or a terrible person of some sort because of my judgments. He always said stuff like, "you're are a sick and scary person," or "why don't you value anything?" I also wish my mother hadn't been so stubborn and ignored everything I had to say that didn't fit into her worldview.

    Overall, my mother was a good, responsible parent (if a little disciplinarian and closed-minded), and my father was too mentally unhealthy to be good at parenting anyone.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #27
    The Architect Alwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I would have liked for my father to value my strong "T" as a child. Instead, I was constantly made out to be a monster or a terrible person of some sort because of my judgments. He always said stuff like, "you're are a sick and scary person," or "why don't you value anything?" I also wish my mother hadn't been so stubborn and ignored everything I had to say that didn't fit into her worldview.

    Overall, my mother was a good, responsible parent (if a little disciplinarian and closed-minded), and my father was too mentally unhealthy to be good at parenting anyone.
    That sounds horrible

    Have you speculated on their types?

  8. #28
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    I had excellent parents. They always tried to motivate me to get as much out of my life as possible. They gave me all the freedom that I needed and really only put pressure on me to explore and perceive the world. By allowing me to do things in ways they did not necessarily understand or approve they gave me the progressive view and open-mindedness I have today, that I value so greatly.

    However, my parent are also horrible communicators. I had to explore the world, they would hardly teach me. I have very little values in common with either of my parents. In addition I wished they would've taught me a bit more discipline to actually finish a project. I know it's not a very INTP trait, but I feel that my inability to follow through is self undermining behaviour to me, and I'm currently experiencing that the hard way.

    To end on a brighter not. Although my parents never taught me much social skills either, I'm currently (in my early 20's) learning how to use them at a very rapid pace. I have good faith for my future concerning the other things that I feel I still need to learn.

  9. #29
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    That I really wasn't trying to cause trouble, I was just exploring and trying to understand. I wasn't asking all those relentless questions to challenge, I really sincerely wanted to know the answers. And the answers brought more questions.

    I wasn't breaking the dishwasher, I was trying to figure out how it worked. Stuff like that. The biggest thing I wish they knew was that "because I said so" is never an answer to a question, and I lost a little more respect for them every time they said it. Still do.

  10. #30
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I wish my parents had realized that, as a teenager, I really only wanted to be heard, and to explain my point of view. I wasn't trying to "have the last word," as my dad always insisted, nor was I trying to "show disrespect." I just wanted them to know where I was coming from, and why I felt the way I did. If they still wanted to punish me, fine. But very often, my mom would accuse me of raising my voice, and my dad would talk over me even as I was trying to speak, and then they'd get upset that I was showing my frustration--when they were really contributing to the frustration level. If they'd just listened, I'd have been satisified.

    Also, don't ever expect an NT kid to obey rules just because they're rules. We don't rebel for rebellion's sake (at least INTPs don't tend to)--we rebel when rules are arbitrary and senseless. But explain WHY they're there, and why we need to follow them, and if it makes sense, we'll happily comply. But it needs to make sense.
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