[NT] The iceman and the child

[DiscoBiscuit]

Do any of you guys feel like a half completed puzzle?

What I mean is, I have always felt a great tension between the two sides of myself, the hyper-competent ice man (dominant personality traits), and the confused, frightened and lonely child (inferior traits). I understand that, to a certain extent, this may be more reflective of my level of maturity than anything else (although I certainly hope not).

In a gross over generalization, I have divided the entirety of my personality into the two sides mentioned above. The iceman is my public persona. The character I don everyday prior to school, or when I go out with large groups of acquaintances. This character is basically my default setting and the one in which I spend the majority of my time. This is the DiscoBiscuit that the world sees. I am comfortable in this character and wear it well. I feel that the iceman is the real world expression of my dominant traits and that this side of myself is the reason I have been able to succeed continuously in my academic and business pursuits. The iceman however, has limited powers. Put him in a social situation, and his abilities to utilize logic, assess the strengths and weaknesses of others, and see the big picture do not offer the same benefits as they do in academic/business world. His quick thinking and ice cold logic fail him completely when he needs to fit in with feelers (or is interested in hitting on a girl and finding some common ground). So, alienated by his own inability to bridge the emotional gap between himself and many (but by no means all) others, he hides behind his intellect and humor so as to remain a functional part of the social interaction. The group picks up on the walls of intellect and humor that the iceman places between others and himself. Consequently, the iceman never really becomes part of the group because of it.

The other deeper side is the child inside. I call this side of myself the child because over the course of my life, I have protected this part of myself so steadfastly that I rarely let others see it. And when I do express this side, it is only to those very near and dear to me. This child is where many of my most closely held convictions come from. These include my ideas on what love should be, my religious beliefs, and my convictions on fairness and equality. Moreover, this side is also where the possibility of true happiness resides. This is the side that I would relish sharing with a SO and where the entirety of my innocence, altruism and humanity come from. Unfortunately, with the possibility of true happiness also comes the possibility of true loss. This side is the vulnerable, gullible, willing to assume the best of others, always gets hurt side of myself.

Basically the main bullet point of this thread is this. How have you NT's been able to bypass the iceman (dominant Te) and allow your vulnerable, sympathetic side to show through?

I feel like I would be happier if I was able to more readily display this side of myself to others. Also, I feel as if girls, and others in social situations would be far more receptive to me if I was able to find a healthier balance between the expression of the iceman and the child.

 

[Fidelia]

DiscoBiscuit -

I believe this is a TJ trait. I will be very interested in what answer you collectively come to. You've got the problem figured out though and if you can come up with a good solution, you could take over the world! Many adoring NFs await the replies rolling in.

 

[entropie]

Well I think you know all that you must about yourself.

What you now need is someone to share it with.

 

[Economica]

Blackwater, was this the kind of thing you were looking for...?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Well I think you know all that you must about yourself.

What you now need is someone to share it with.

I absolutely agree with this.

I just haven't met anyone who I was comfortable sharing my inner child with who felt the same about me

edit: I actually did, but she turned out to be bipolar and I was 17 and that relationship ended years ago.

 

[entropie]

Want a Scotch too ? I got that really nice bottle of a 16 year old, I just shared with Trinity ?!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Two fingers please.

 

[entropie]

Here you go, to love and may I finally one day go to bed before I again drank far too much -.- skol !

 

[EJCC]

Firstly, I agree with fidelia that this isn't just an NT thing. I can almost completely relate to the iceman/child concept. (Of course, you mentioned that it's dominant Te, and I share that particular trait with ENTJs.) There are some differences. though. For instance, I don't know if "iceman" is appropriate, metaphorically, considering that my "default setting", as you put it, is cheery, joking, dramatic and gregarious. I probably have three settings, come to think of it, with "iceman" referring to how I act in a work setting, "child" referring to me in my most vulnerable moments, and the third being me in social settings, when I'm trying to impress people with humor and storytelling (keeping in mind, of course, that all three of them are "me", and that I am not the sort of person who puts on acts, generally). I have NO idea if this applies to NTs, but it's how I am.

Secondly, to answer your question (even though I'm not an NT), I've bypassed the iceman (and third persona?) by learning to see opportunities to open up, and take advantage of them. For instance, if I've been friends with someone for a while, and they start to open up to me, I might give a proportional anecdote that makes me vulnerable as well. The unpleasantness of the vulnerability is counterbalanced by the sympathy from the other party. If they aren't sympathetic, well, stuff happens, and I won't presume that that's how it'll be next time.
Although, for the sake of full disclosure, it's been easier to bypass the iceman because I'm female. Friendships between women encourage bringing out the "child" much more so than friendships between men. I've had a lot of practice with it, since that's what's socially acceptable. (Based on that experience, I can tell you that yes, revealing your "child" will give you some advantage with girls, since, as they say, girls like sensitive guys.)

 

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

Do any of you guys feel like a half completed puzzle?

What I mean is, I have always felt a great tension between the two sides of myself, the hyper-competent ice man (dominant personality traits), and the confused, frightened and lonely child (inferior traits). I understand that, to a certain extent, this may be more reflective of my level of maturity than anything else (although I certainly hope not).

In a gross over generalization, I have divided the entirety of my personality into the two sides mentioned above. The iceman is my public persona. The character I don everyday prior to school, or when I go out with large groups of acquaintances. This character is basically my default setting and the one in which I spend the majority of my time. This is the DiscoBiscuit that the world sees. I am comfortable in this character and wear it well. I feel that the iceman is the real world expression of my dominant traits and that this side of myself is the reason I have been able to succeed continuously in my academic and business pursuits. The iceman however, has limited powers. Put him in a social situation, and his abilities to utilize logic, assess the strengths and weaknesses of others, and see the big picture do not offer the same benefits as they do in academic/business world. His quick thinking and ice cold logic fail him completely when he needs to fit in with feelers (or is interested in hitting on a girl and finding some common ground). So, alienated by his own inability to bridge the emotional gap between himself and many (but by no means all) others, he hides behind his intellect and humor so as to remain a functional part of the social interaction. The group picks up on the walls of intellect and humor that the iceman places between others and himself. Consequently, the iceman never really becomes part of the group because of it.

The other deeper side is the child inside. I call this side of myself the child because over the course of my life, I have protected this part of myself so steadfastly that I rarely let others see it. And when I do express this side, it is only to those very near and dear to me. This child is where many of my most closely held convictions come from. These include my ideas on what love should be, my religious beliefs, and my convictions on fairness and equality. Moreover, this side is also where the possibility of true happiness resides. This is the side that I would relish sharing with a SO and where the entirety of my innocence, altruism and humanity come from. Unfortunately, with the possibility of true happiness also comes the possibility of true loss. This side is the vulnerable, gullible, willing to assume the best of others, always gets hurt side of myself.

Basically the main bullet point of this thread is this. How have you NT's been able to bypass the iceman (dominant Te) and allow your vulnerable, sympathetic side to show through?

I feel like I would be happier if I was able to more readily display this side of myself to others. Also, I feel as if girls, and others in social situations would be far more receptive to me if I was able to find a healthier balance between the expression of the iceman and the child.

I relate 100% here. These two sides of me always seem at odds. Its funny you used the terms you did... Ice and a Child. Those are the same kinds of mental images I have of myself.

Ice is exactly how I feel on the outside... like a surface calm covering a storm of emotion underneath. (I'm also an Enneagram 4 heh) If anyone were to take a pick-axe and slam it into that surface, they'd find me shattering to pieces and a cowering child inside, scared to come out.

I find that when I'm trying to relate to people, to fit into a crowd, its that child that I call on and instead of sharing the FEELINGS of that child, I share the actual childishness and come across as perhaps immature and ridiculous. I joke, I act like an airhead, I laugh... and by doing this I win people over and 'fit in'. I found a long time ago that the serious, know-it-all persona tends to piss people off, so I fluctuate between the two on a situation by situation basis.

When I started reading your post, I thought immediately of a piece I wrote last year about this time. The first few lines are:

Molten lava moves amid the caverns deep within
The splintered flames of passion seem an evil, and a sin.

Sweetly as she looks away; politely though she nods,
Her outer calm, and inner fire always seem at odds.

A fiery, bridled spirit in the form of frozen heat,
A wild, raging current, but without the Sea to greet.​

The dynamic is always a push/pull of calm and excitement, and I have a hard time reconciling the two sometimes.

As far as the Feeling part goes and being able to relate to others, I'm still working on that, but I've made great strides in the last few years. I find that the more I 'practice' (This is exactly how I see it), the easier it gets. I 'pretend' that I'm an ExFx, sympathizing with someone, asking questions I may not normally ask, talking to strangers and forcing myself out of that solitude. Sometimes its still awkward and I just don't have the energy for it, but whenever possible I try to over-ride those hermit instincts.

Keep working at it. It sounds like you have a good grasp of the problem, and being aware of it can help you to change it. Use the knowledge you have to your advantage! Most people never delve far enough into their own motives to understand half of what they do, so you're on the right track!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Thanks for all the responses so far guys!

I figure that as long as I'm aware of my motives and who I am, and have a conscious objective to continue to improve myself, that ultimately I will figure it out.

 

[thisGuy]

Basically the main bullet point of this thread is this. How have you NT's been able to bypass the iceman (dominant Te) and allow your vulnerable, sympathetic side to show through?

what defines which character comes out? your surroundings, right?

so one time when ice is on, make an effort to bring the child out. sure, things would be clumsy at first but pretty soon the ice and the child should assimilate and make a very powerful team.

you'll loose the ice/child distinction when child starts handling whatever ice is good at and maybe vice versa...cuz then child will feel comfortable and ice won't have to be that...icelike

 

[Fidelia]

I think that EJCC has a good point. This is something that comes through frequent practice; maybe her and thisGuy's methods are a start. For most Fs, even seeing glimmers of the child's existence will make them both interested in you and more trusting of you. No one wants to feel that they are the only one with vulnerabilities. When there is only one sided, sharing the sharer either quits or starts feeling very resentful/underconfident (which also brings on awkward emotional feelings).

The child can come out in little ways. We were discussing in the SJ forum what others see as vulnerability and some STJs were surprised that it didn't have to be all that overt. Things like asking someone's opinion, seeking their expertise in areas you know they are competent in, showing interest in what they have to say, accepting an offer of help or something they could do for you (can be something little), telling them about small things that bother you (you don't have to delve in big and scary - you are just making yourself human by showing that you to don't have it all perfect and figured out), complimenting someone sincerely, considering their point of view without being dismissive, being patient with people who do not think the same as you, offering a little bit of your thought processes for them to see. These are little ways to be vulnerable so they are not too very risky. They will make you more approachable and make it seem like less big of a deal when you want to expose anything deeper.

You have made an excellent analysis of the problem and I think the only thing lacking is practice at exercising the underexposed side of who you are.

 

[entropie]

very well said, for in the end we are all only humans !

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Like EJCC I'd like to add the social (third) facet two the two others I've already mentioned. Although, it isnt always expressed when in a social environment. If I'm accepted by the group as a whole, I will fully express my social side through the prism of the child. If I'm not accepted but merely tolerated, the social side will still be expressed, but I won't be able to let my guard down enough to reveal the child. Thus when lacking acceptance, my social side is expressed through the lens of the iceman.

When my positive child focused social side comes out, the greatest of times can be had.

When the negative iceman social side comes out, it is nearly impossible to just let go and have a good time.

 

[Fidelia]

What makes you feel accepted by the group as a whole? Is it the mix of people? Their reaction to you? How you are feeling at the time?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

What makes you feel accepted by the group as a whole? Is it the mix of people? Their reaction to you? How you are feeling at the time?

Definitely their reaction to me. Mostly a body language thing I guess. Whether or not I'm accepted seems to have a lot to do with whether my particular brand of humor flies with the group in question.

 

[Usehername]

Short answer: Used to be like that; grew out of it.

Long answer:

Ice is exactly how I feel on the outside... like a surface calm covering a storm of emotion underneath. (I'm also an Enneagram 4 heh) If anyone were to take a pick-axe and slam it into that surface, they'd find me shattering to pieces and a cowering child inside, scared to come out.

I relate to this "still waters run deep" notion.
I also relate to your childish behaviour mentioned below; I used to do this in high school (which btw is not intended as an insult, it's simply fact for me):

I find that when I'm trying to relate to people, to fit into a crowd, its that child that I call on and instead of sharing the FEELINGS of that child, I share the actual childishness and come across as perhaps immature and ridiculous. I joke, I act like an airhead, I laugh... and by doing this I win people over and 'fit in'. I found a long time ago that the serious, know-it-all persona tends to piss people off, so I fluctuate between the two on a situation by situation basis.

As far as the Feeling part goes and being able to relate to others, I'm still working on that, but I've made great strides in the last few years. I find that the more I 'practice' (This is exactly how I see it), the easier it gets. I 'pretend' that I'm an ExFx, sympathizing with someone, asking questions I may not normally ask, talking to strangers and forcing myself out of that solitude. Sometimes its still awkward and I just don't have the energy for it, but whenever possible I try to over-ride those hermit instincts.

I went through this during my Rough Year. I simply had a lot of emotional shit to sort through, and I took the shitty situation as an opportunity to have legitmate reasons to explore my feelings both by myself and with trusted others. (Undiagnosed and moderately serious illness that messed with my hormones and was painful/death of same-aged favourite cousin/other shitty life problems.) It actually broke me through it, I think. This was right after my gap year of pushing personal boundaries and engaging in new experiences (we moved every week for a school year and traveled Canada and Africa, volunteering and attending lectures and doing extreme sports etc.)

All in all, I've learned to pwn this part of me and I don't feel the discrepancy. I'm like INFJs in that I'd be comfortable and able to share these parts of myself, I simply choose to only let special individuals see it, and even then on my terms.

 

[violet_crown]

I definitely know what your talking about, Disco. Almost down to the same images, eerily enough. For me its child and wolf. The wolf is cold, arrogant and intellectual. The child is the innocent, manic, fragile and creative who has more of a female/anima vibe. The wolf protects the child though the child is the more dangerous of the two, I think. The wolf has a code, but the child is a hedonist and without empathy.

Honest to god, it doesn't fee like either of them are really fit for company. I'm happier when the Kid is running the show though. I have more adventures, I can talk to anyone and people are drawn to me. It doesn't seem genuine though. It's funny because I have an easier time integrating the two when engaged in a project than in my social life. I don't know what happens to me.

 

[EJCC]

Definitely their reaction to me. Mostly a body language thing I guess. Whether or not I'm accepted seems to have a lot to do with whether my particular brand of humor flies with the group in question.

Agreed. I won't feel accepted if no one laughs at my jokes - and I will joke, when in a group of people I don't know.
But I only TRULY feel accepted when I no longer feel pressured to expose only the social side. (We should have a name for that persona. "Socialite"? "Comedian"? Hm.) This might sound weird, but when I can be the iceman around someone, while knowing that they won't think less of me for it, I know that that someone is a friend. The child is a whole other step, really.