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  1. #11
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    lighten up dude....

    The mess is because there are MUCH more interesting things to spend ones time on. Tidying just means it will get messy and require to be retidied again a few das/weeks later...

    Personally I think that someone ought to invesnt a self dusting house... I think that is the most futile of all house hold chores....

    I'm always as light as a feather, so don't worry about that, dude.

    And, I'm not concerned with the issue of dusting, vacuuming, etc. I'm speaking to a system, which is easily created, that will ultimately allow more time to do you "interesting things." In other words, it's much faster to put something in a logical location in order to easily locate it, or them, than it is to have to spend time looking and thinking about where the items are at present time. If NTs are about systems, than why would so many of them continually live in disorder, lack of precision, and carelessness?

    It is, in fact, illogical and waisting precious time for "philosophizing."
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  2. #12
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Standard answer. All messy people say that to justify their behavior. However, it's still inefficient, unorganized, disorderly, and lacking precision. All of which, of course, are not characteristics of a rational, systematic individual.

    Now why would you, as a member of the Rational club, do something that would be described in this manner?
    A system is for sensors. I like the concept of clean better then I actually like cleaning up.

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    ah, but you see it's not what I'm doing.... it's what i don't do and I don't justify things that I don't do - that's just illogical!

    I don't need to justify my messy room (i have the laws of entropy and all for that), I need to justify cleaning it in the first place (which I can't do, cuz i dont see the point)
    LOL...

  3. #13
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimmy View Post
    A system is for sensors. I like the concept of clean better then I actually like cleaning up.
    Jesus . . . I feel like I'm teaching MBTI 101 around here today.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  4. #14
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Being messy is inefficient, definitely doesn't promote time saving and after awhile will drive me insane. I use to be in the I don't care camp but after organizing my spaces and keeping them that way I found life as a whole had more balance. Not so much..where the fuck are my chunky black heels because I'm certainly not walking around in spike 5 inchers all day because that's all I can find.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #15
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Finally . . . a truly logical being making an obvious observation and adjustment.

    Thank you.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  6. #16
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Finally . . . a truly logical being making an obvious observation and adjustment.

    Thank you.
    You're welcome.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  7. #17
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Standard answer. All messy people say that to justify their behavior. However, it's still inefficient, unorganized, disorderly, and lacking precision. All of which, of course, are not characteristics of a rational, systematic individual.

    Now why would you, as a member of the Rational club, do something that would be described in this manner?
    I'm a little appalled by this response. Just because everything doesn't fit into 3 stacks, all of which go neatly together doesn't make a system inefficient.

    It is entirely your opinion and belief that "organized chaos" is inefficient. Well, that may be the case for you, but that's not the case. You can have a stack of papers, and have File A in the middle of them. Why flip through all of those papers and tediously grab File A out of the middle and readjust the stack when you can have the papers spread out on your desk or whatever and grab File A much more quickly because you know exactly where it is and you don't have to fuss around with dealing with other things? I work in spurts, and if something as tedious as sorting everything out were to break the pattern of getting things done, then it would actually prevent me from getting work done because I will have lost my train of thought, causing me to be much more inefficient.

    A lot of what's deemed as being "orderly" deals with arbitrary things like aesthetics. Aesthetics are nice, but they don't dictate what's rational or not.

    Then again, you can't fit a square peg into a round hole. So if it's not for you, it's not for you.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
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    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    I'm speaking to a system, which is easily created, that will ultimately allow more time to do you "interesting things." In other words, it's much faster to put something in a logical location in order to easily locate it, or them, than it is to have to spend time looking and thinking about where the items are at present time. If NTs are about systems, than why would so many of them continually live in disorder, lack of precision, and carelessness?
    I am organized in general for the reasons you mentioned above, if things are put where they "belong" they are easy to find and that saves time overall.

    But I am intentionally messy in my "work area", the surface near my computer is covered with piles. I leave things lying around because "out of sight, is out of mind", so anything that still needs attention will be forgotten if there isn't some reference to it at my fingertips. I also find that ideas are triggered by making random connections between things and having a messy pile to paw through facilitates those kind of inspirations. So the mess surrounding me is a form of multitasking, my mind unconsciously processes all the data it can see. There is a trade-off, occasionally something gets lost in the shuffle.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Then again, you can't fit a square peg into a round hole. So if it's not for you, it's not for you.
    You will never get people of the OP's mindset to understand this. Ever.

  10. #20
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Isn't it part of the NT profile to find the easiest way possible to solve a problem? A lot of it (from the outside) seems like laziness/pragmatism. "The easiest way to find my coat tomorrow is to leave it slung over the chair by the door. Problem solved. Why would I make more work for myself by opening the closet door and hanging it?"

    That seems to the refrain of the messy/neat conversations in my life.

    I have to say that, outside of abstract problem solving, the NTs in my life lack the ability to project themselves relationally/practically into the future. (i.e.: the relational strife caused by slovenliness ends up being a greater expenditure of energy than hanging the coat, they may not actually remember where they slung the coat when ADD kicks in, etc)

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