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  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default INTJs: closed eyes?

    When you guys are talking and you close your eyes and keep talking, what are you doing?

    In some INTJs this seem to be accompanied by distinct, controlled, hand gestures as well.

    EDIT: Not the bird, silly ENTPs, be good.
    EDIT2: or jacking off (god is watching you!!!)

  2. #2
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Thinking about sex.

    Take a closer look at the hand gestures.

  3. #3
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Thinking about sex.

    Take a closer look at the hand gestures.
    utterly hopeless. perhaps Ni, little furry one? Answer or I'll start being a whiny NF.

  4. #4
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    One would presume Ni for the eyes, Te for the hands, but I don't know because I can't think of a time I've closed my eyes talking to people.

    I do know ENFPs are pretty much the only type that knows what it means when my gaze wanders off to the horizon. "Hey!" they say, and draw my attention back to them.

    Although an ESFJ did once surprise me by constantly using my name in conversation. She'd start sentences with it, or drop it in the middle. It had the effect of keeping me engaged. It was annoying after a while but felt friendly in the beginning.


    (I have actually recently been wondering if there isn't a similar effect on Te as that felt by INFJs on Fe: they say they get flooded by other people's feelings. I say, or sometimes wonder, if INTJs don't get overwhelmed by other people's words. It's sometimes overwhelming, words in the environment, like I can't not listen to them.)

  5. #5
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    One would presume Ni for the eyes, Te for the hands, but I don't know because I can't think of a time I've closed my eyes talking to people.

    I do know ENFPs are pretty much the only type that knows what it means when my gaze wanders off to the horizon. "Hey!" they say, and draw my attention back to them.

    Although an ESFJ did once surprise me by constantly using my name in conversation. She'd start sentences with it, or drop it in the middle. It had the effect of keeping me engaged. It was annoying after a while but felt friendly in the beginning.


    (I have actually recently been wondering if there isn't a similar effect on Te as that felt by INFJs on Fe: they say they get flooded by other people's feelings. I say, or sometimes wonder, if INTJs don't get overwhelmed by other people's words. It's sometimes overwhelming, words in the environment, like I can't not listen to them.)
    that name dropping would be annoying. and weird. I have seen that with folks who have training in how not to forget names and such, but it feels false. and with ENFJs as well actually.

    The eyes may be less closed than slow blinks of one to three second duration. I havent seen all intjs do it but have seen about three now. Two accompany with hands in front, almost as if they are trying to contruct the Ni connectivities or Te structures in front of them?

    The most "normal" intj does this the most. Almost as though his Ni-Te is weaker, which allows him to fit in better, however to use it he has to screen out external stimuli. He is early fifties, very introverted, very Te, CEO, high level of integrity. He does lots of Fi sweet glances when interacting with me, however with NTs is very Te.

    with NeFi I have totally emo dumped on an INFJ before. freaks them out. So would that be NeTi that would freak out an INTJ more??? They get overwhlemed by the ideas perhaps?

  6. #6
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I have seen some INTs do this.


    My best guess is that they are still fairy S so they need to this to conncentrate properly. Since they do this always/only why they are talking abstractly or they have to connect some dots.


    I don't do this since I am naturally "blind". If I don't focus on my senses I don't notice most of objects around me. My inner process of analysing and planning simply takes almost all energy. I can pass next to some object everyday for years and fail in noticing them.

    Like tablets with street names that have even become rusty because of how long they have been there. Even if they are on a clear monotonous wall they will probably not get my attention. Because of this I think that I don't need the "skill" mentioned in the OP.

  7. #7
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    The most "normal" intj does this the most. Almost as though his Ni-Te is weaker, which allows him to fit in better, however to use it he has to screen out external stimuli. He is early fifties, very introverted, very Te, CEO, high level of integrity. He does lots of Fi sweet glances when interacting with me, however with NTs is very Te.
    Oh lord. So let me get this right, with you, but not with other people, these INTJs close their eyes and move their hands in front of themselves. Only with you. Not in front of other people. And sometimes they glance sweetly at you.

    That's some interesting workplace you got there.

    with NeFi I have totally emo dumped on an INFJ before. freaks them out. So would that be NeTi that would freak out an INTJ more??? They get overwhlemed by the ideas perhaps?
    NeTi tends to be exhausting more than freaking. It just goes on and on and on and on and on, always with some new reason that I'm not right and can't reach a conclusion.

    Nah, the overwhelmed thing is more like some stupid stimulus response thing. Have you seen "Up"? It has talking dogs, and then--"SQUIRREL!" They stop talking and point at the imaginary squirrel. As dogs do. It's not exactly like that, but there is some thing where words in the environment draw me toward them. Not always. Sometimes I'm oblivious. Other times I can't sink into my own thoughts for all the drivel going on around me.

  8. #8
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    (I have actually recently been wondering if there isn't a similar effect on Te as that felt by INFJs on Fe: they say they get flooded by other people's feelings. I say, or sometimes wonder, if INTJs don't get overwhelmed by other people's words. It's sometimes overwhelming, words in the environment, like I can't not listen to them.)
    hi. i'm back and butting in again. the nf threads are boring.

    couldn't this: "I say, or sometimes wonder, if INTJs don't get overwhelmed by other people's words. It's sometimes overwhelming, words in the environment..." be a process of your Ne feeding Ti:

    Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency. [22]
    i have been digging exploring the The Lenore Thomson Exegesis Wiki cuz it explains things a bit differently for me. i especially find interesting her left vs right brain ideas: Truth-and-Language Exegesis if you as intj truly have this function order (which is not very likely imo, just cuz they don't seem to fall out like beebe proposes) Ne, Ti, Fe, Si, then your two primary functions are right-brained and your teriary and inferior functions are left-brained. and since the right-brained functions (theoretically your most comfortable way of being) operate like this:
    Instead of focusing on a few things and making one discrete decision at a time, they guide you to take in everything at once and respond continuously to the whole.
    and the left-brained functions (maybe what you're developing right now?) operate like this:
    view the world as overwhelmingly complicated, and language a means to navigating through it. Language enables you to navigate by directing your attention to only one or a very small number of things at once, and making one discrete decision at a time, always on the basis of clearly articulated criteria.
    i wonder how that gets caught in the mind of an intj? it's like you're used to taking in everything all at once, but perhaps your brain, as it develops more left-brained perceiving and judging, finds more interest in language (words) for the definitive way to explain or label something. perhaps because it's a newer way of thinking, you are more aware of it and it feels like "words are flooding your brain," especially since Ti already does this anyway?

    hey, man, if this is sh$%, ignore me. just employing my righteous Te this morning and i haven't had my morning coffee
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  9. #9
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    First I shall elaborate on this attribute exhibited by many INTJs and then I shall explain what I think are the reasons behind such behavior.

    To begin, I think we need to be on the same page here, and therefore I advise everyone interested in this phenomenon to take a look at this three-minute video taken from Waking Life: YouTube - Telescopic Evolution - Waking Life excerpt Incidentally, my best friend, who is an INFJ, had me watch this video as he told me that this person reminded him of me. In truth, the first time I watched it I was laughing hysterically at how my friend had drew a comparison between this character and myself. I found humor and irony in how animated, idiosyncratic, and passionate the speaker is, but in truth I do exhibit these attributes--particularly if I am inspired and/or talking about something that is of interest to me. I imagine those on vent who have heard me engage in conversation, though a rarity these days, can attest to this. Indeed, I close my eyes at certain points while speaking and my hands move around rhythmically and touch random things at times.

    Thus far I have merely expounded on the general observation made by the original poster. It is also important to establish why I, and other INTJs, exhibit this behavior. So I shall establish each piece of the puzzle and then fit it together to form the whole. First, the closing of eyes indicates that the speaker is at that moment highly in tune with his or her inner world of ideas. More specifically, in addition to being broadly in tune when the eyes close it communicates sheer hardcoreness and intimacy with that particular point and how it is so critical to the bigger picture. It is important to remember that for INTJs Ni establishes a broad agenda and Te is used to externalize this agenda and work to bring it to fruition. When the eyes go shut, it is a moment of intellectual ecstacy wherein Ni, Te, and Fi coincide on a point that is critical to the internal agenda (Ni), logically makes sense in the empirical world (Te), and reinforces the speaker's Fi. As a result, the not so important Se pays the price and the speaker is oblivious to his surroundings absorbed in thought and publishing in conversation those points that are critical--probably not noticing or not caring to notice when the eyes go shut. Second, hand motion and touching physical objects while speaking is linked to a few things. Setting MBTI aside for a moment, I find that people who tend to this are typically more energetic, enthusiastic, and thus cannot possibly restrict all that they wish to communicate strictly to words. Further, not only would this be contrary to the nature of an energetic type but in addition an intelligent person knows the value of using other devices to enable more effective communication. In addition to verbal content, these devices include tone of voice, dynamics, tempo, accents, body language, facial expressions, and so forth. Thus, in addition to precision in dictum the intelligent INTJ will draw upon such devices (such as using hand movements in conjunction with certain words and touching things to bring the abstract down to the concrete) to help communicate his or her ideas. The counterpoint to be is, however, that under certain conditions these physical motions may distract or take away from, rather than enhance, that which is being communicated. Indeed, I have a friend who has a sort of ADD when he talks sometimes, and constantly feels compelled to touch random things and point to unrelated objects as he speaks. To someone who doesn't know him, it would be quite humorous. But in his own head this helps him make sense of the world and vent his energies in more ways than using plain English. As a result, his own perception of his communication may not square well with actual realities at times. Nevertheless, if one possesses good judgment, is measured, and understands people, they will be able to use this to their own utility and it can be quite adventageous so long as it enhances rather than distorts communication. Now, I mentioned briefly that intonation, dynamics, tempo, can be used in communication. Interestingly, these are all important elements in musicianship. My guess is that musicians, who have an intuitive capacity to fine-tune such devices, will on average have a high potential for effective speaking. For instance, Bill Clinton who is considered a highly charismatic speaker by many played the tenor saxophone. One is not necessarily the cause of the other, but the two often coincide. Thus, we can establish that developing a better ear and sense of musicianship, when accompanied with confidence, can lead to better speaking and, by extension, communication.

  10. #10
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The drama of the message manifests in the body?


    I like it!

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