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  1. #31
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    But I think it may be overdevelopment of Fe on some level that triggers what me and the OP are seeing.
    I know that Fe is associated with manipulation, but it really feels like NeTi. The same way that we notice inconsistencies and see possibilities... it doesn't turn off just because we deal with humans. I think that if someone doesn't have a strong ethical background or any moral fiber, an ENTP can be monstrous. I think the same way about the "con artist" darkside of ESTPs. The Fe is just the sugar that makes it go down.

  2. #32
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    how about looking at it from a different angle...

    how well do you guys take criticism? what if the critisicm is directed towards one of your ideas/inventions/creations that you are particularly proud of and that makes you feel accomplished? What would you do to defend that accomplishment?
    It depends on the criticism, of course. If it's from someone that I respect and is presented in a way that actually shows me they have thought it through, I am more than happy to receive it. I believe that the more, the merrier when it comes to ideas.

    If it's from someone that I feel is of dubious intelligence, I will dismiss it - but I'll probably still ponder it later.

    If it seems snarky, of course I will react in kind. Anything I present to the world is a source of pride and I get my feelings hurt like anyone else.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I know that Fe is associated with manipulation, but it really feels like NeTi. The same way that we notice inconsistencies and see possibilities... it doesn't turn off just because we deal with humans. I think that if someone doesn't have a strong ethical background or any moral fiber, an ENTP can be monstrous. I think the same way about the "con artist" darkside of ESTPs. The Fe is just the sugar that makes it go down.
    This.

    That and Ne can be good at justifying pretty much anything. Without a strong moral fiber--or a judgment function, if you will--the results can be devastating.

  4. #34
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I know that Fe is associated with manipulation, but it really feels like NeTi. The same way that we notice inconsistencies and see possibilities... it doesn't turn off just because we deal with humans. I think that if someone doesn't have a strong ethical background or any moral fiber, an ENTP can be monstrous. I think the same way about the "con artist" darkside of ESTPs. The Fe is just the sugar that makes it go down.

    actually your right, that makes more sense. Maybe the choice is NeTi but Fe is tool they employ to accomplish. However I think tertiary Fe may differ a lot in how its facets (?) develop for different enxps?? So they have pieces of it that allow them to manipulate and make them socially skilled but they lack the pieces that ground them in what is the right thing to do for the better of others-like a disjointed, bumpily developed Fe.

    One other thought. I totally lack Fe so I do not care at all how I appear to society or what others expect me to be like. These entps do care though-thus the stories of nice cars, first class plane tickets,or happy families that are made up, or elaborate things they did in the past. Perhaps again a bumpily developed Fe, that makes them aware of what others think, but doesnt ground them in what is best for others? all questions though...

  5. #35
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    how well do you guys take criticism? what if the critisicm is directed towards one of your ideas/inventions/creations that you are particularly proud of and that makes you feel accomplished? What would you do to defend that accomplishment?
    Criticism is totally fine by me, I don't get upset or question myself if people question me, my abilities or my projects, if the criticism is fair I take it on board, if it isn't it's dismissed. It's never taken personally.

  6. #36
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    If it seems snarky, of course I will react in kind. Anything I present to the world is a source of pride and I get my feelings hurt like anyone else.

    THIS. THIS. THIS!!!

    Okay so this is when the fun really starts. If you take two of these guys, pyut them in a room together, they criticize each other in a very snarky fashion. Then each gets more and more offended and more defensive and snarky. Along with dismissive as well. It becomes an ENTP war zone. Thier ideas I think are what they take pride in.

    Sorry I hope I am not digging, and i apologize if I am. I am trying to sort this out and devlop tactics to deal with them as they are starting to cripple projects with thier behaviors.

    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    This.

    That and Ne can be good at justifying pretty much anything. Without a strong moral fiber--or a judgment function, if you will--the results can be devastating.

    ooohhh, rationalization and justification. Living in a sea of Ne is beautiful. Is moral fiber derived from Ti or Fe for an entp?

  7. #37
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Is moral fiber derived from Ti or Fe for an entp?
    I don't think moral fiber can be derived from any of the functions. Either you have it or don't. Ti and Fe allows me to evaluate them and reach conclusions based on them...but, it doesn't birth my moral fiber. That is what leads to individual differences amongst ENTPs, what kind of a person you are, at the core, a good guy, a villian, is completely outside the sphere of functions.

  8. #38
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    One other thought. I totally lack Fe so I do not care at all how I appear to society or what others expect me to be like. These entps do care though-thus the stories of nice cars, first class plane tickets,or happy families that are made up, or elaborate things they did in the past. Perhaps again a bumpily developed Fe, that makes them aware of what others think, but doesnt ground them in what is best for others? all questions though...
    I really can't answer that for you. The status thing baffles me. But I guess that could be Fe overload, I don't know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Okay so this is when the fun really starts. If you take two of these guys, pyut them in a room together, they criticize each other in a very snarky fashion. Then each gets more and more offended and more defensive and snarky. Along with dismissive as well. It becomes an ENTP war zone. Thier ideas I think are what they take pride in.

    Sorry I hope I am not digging, and i apologize if I am. I am trying to sort this out and devlop tactics to deal with them as they are starting to cripple projects with thier behaviors.
    Yes, but taking pride in something doesn't automatically equate to insecurity and this is where I'm having a hard time understanding what you are getting at. If I offend your Fi sense of value, it doesn't mean that your are insecure about it.

    So they are snarky with each other... it just seems like these 2 people are competitive with each other, which has nothing to do with type or even pride, but it manifests itself in the functions of our type.

    (and please, stop apologizing - we love you, puppy! er, sorry: monster...)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    ooohhh, rationalization and justification. Living in a sea of Ne is beautiful. Is moral fiber derived from Ti or Fe for an entp?
    If it were to fit in with a function, I think Fi would be closest to "the function of moral fiber," actually, regardless of its status within the ENTP. But it can be overpowered just as easily.

  10. #40
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I've often wondered if ENTPs fear being kicked off the top. My eNTP was absolutely the alpha in the group. He wasn't domineering but he *was* the de facto leader or at least second in command at any given time. He was really smart and capable, and not much got at him, but I could see flickers of insecurity or unsureness, like his private nightmare would be to wake up and find out he'd been deluded about his intelligence and worth all along. I could tell when I had him on the ropes. He went from being cocky and chill, to this look that I can only describe as "please don't hurt me". It was a very drastic duality. And the things that made him vulnerable were sometimes surprising. Like me messing with/uprooting his shirt. He'd turn bright red, laugh a bit, and bashfully tell me to stop it.

    Another long-term ENTP friend, he's what I would determine as a tornado with feelings. He tries to stay just two steps ahead of everything, including his own emotions.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

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