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View Poll Results: Do you cut off the rope? NTs only please

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  • Cut off the rope

    35 77.78%
  • Stay on the rope

    10 22.22%
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancynobullets View Post
    Further investigation is good. Pointing out the various holes in thisguy's scenario is unhelpful and pointless.
    not as pointless as it might appear at first

    throw in some lack of details and threat to personal safety where your conscience might be tickled and you have a scenario that where the you (the decision maker) demands an explanation to the point where you can make a choice and not have any misgivings/troubled-self

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    So:
    (I'm not sure what system of value this scenario serves to highlight; in all likelihood, the prospect of inevitable death would overwhelm reasonable thought and simply cascade the individual into a state of hysterical self-preservation. Nothing is really clarified by our answers. Only that, as distant theory, we may/may not recognize the value of life.)

    i've already thought of that

    so any ultimate 'answers' given here don't really make a difference.

    in the end only thing that will come from this thread is how the conclusions were reached and how long did they take to reach...moral type exposed in this thread will be in the minority and thus useless to relate to type...relating to temperament? now that, i think, could be done with a few assumptions...but perhaps not just yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    To clarify -

    I'd be interested to hear a summary of your results, once they are satisfactory. Further, if you believe that a retooling of your scenario would have enhanced your comparison of response:type.
    for sure.

    yes, but i don't think retooling would have allowed for growth in terms of the scenario itself...it might have given some very definite answers but it wouldn't show how those answers were reached. i suppose, you can call the poll a red herring if you want.

    basically, different temperaments value different things...

    NT Rationale was the only place where i edited the if you gotta stay on the mountain, so does everyone else to if you are gonna die, so does everyone else. this was the only place that demanded complete facts before being comfortable with a choice.

    so far, for most NTs only thing that has mattered is the value of the question. most are unable to even look past that. this could mean several things, including:

    -apathy. not wanting to spend time on a question because of its perceived incompetency
    -avoidance. avoid questioning of basic/moral/ethical principles, refuting the question till it matches a standard where it can be answered without rubbing against any inner values or personal rules
    -something else that i cant point a finger towards...yet

    i've never met an NT who has accepted a project at face value without question. leaving some 'holes' allows for development by me and the answerer. this also demonstrates Ni and Ti at work where people are trying to analyze within the situation but keep getting stuck at the hole. one too many holes and a flag goes up saying the question is stupid

    also, halfway through the thread, the question turned into a riddle...the entire perspective of the audience changed as soon as people started thinking that the question was only stupid cuz it wasn't a question at all, it was a riddle...

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ly-please.html
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...e-nt-only.html
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...e-sp-only.html
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post703303

    this is just what i have initially gathered...need time to process....i think a lot more can be learned here but i AM at work and its prolly a good idea to get some of that done too

    a thread in parallel: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...servation.html

  2. #62
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughingebony View Post
    Before I read the responses, I thought NTs would have the least trouble with thought experiments, but that is obviously not the case.

    It's really not that complicated. Sure, the question has some loopholes, but you know what the hypotheses should be. Answer the question accordingly.

    I'd cut the rope. Either I die or all of us (including me) die.
    That's why the question sucks. There's not even a hint of dilemma.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    stay on: big ego.

    but more seriously, i can't stand heroes, and the idea of being a hero is even more sickening.
    people do heroic things to make themselves feel better about themselves -- about how virtuous they are. it's actually hypocritical.

    i'm not virtuous and i know it.
    i'm the pure one.

    well...thats new

  4. #64
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    This would be a better question:

    You find yourself on a ropeladder hanging from a chopper together with 3 other people. Two people are higher up the ladder, one is slightly down from your position.

    Your eyes catch the rope slowly tearing up near the helicopter. You quickly asses the situation and realise there is approximatly 1 to 2 people too much hanging from the rope. But you are not certain. You have 4 seconds of descision time before the ladder breaks and everyone falls. Cutting beneath you first in the case there are two people too much hanging from the rope would sufficiently strain the rope to break anyway, due to the time it takes to cut the rope.

    Will you cut the rope above you, or beneath you?



    The angles that make this question interesting is. Can you live with yourself taking the chance to cut one person to their death in the case one was enough. Are you willing to put two more lives at stake for the sake of an assumption. Would you cut the rope above you just so you don't have to live with killing someone else. Etc, etc.
    A much better question but still hypothetically. Much more appealing to INTP's because you incorporated actually assessing the situation, something I would in the very least do. As for the moral part of the question, my answer thought of in a totally safe environment and with a couple of seconds to think about it would be: I don't think I could live with myself knowing I was partially responsible for somebody else's death. But more importantly I KNOW I couldn't live with myself being dead. Cut the rope beneath me.

  5. #65
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughingebony View Post
    Before I read the responses, I thought NTs would have the least trouble with thought experiments, but that is obviously not the case.

    It's really not that complicated. Sure, the question has some loopholes, but you know what the hypotheses should be. Answer the question accordingly.

    I'd cut the rope. Either I die or all of us (including me) die.
    If you are the type of person who never questions anything or looks for alternatives, then it's fitting that you would die because of it.

  6. #66
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    If you are the type of person who never questions anything or looks for alternatives, then it's fitting that you would die because of it.
    Pwnage
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  7. #67
    Senior Member Galusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    1. The typical helicopter can only hover between 15,000 and 18,000 feet before lack of air density prevents it from staying aloft. (note: A specially designed helicopter actually summitted Everest in the last few years but this is not the norm capability.) How tall is the icy mountain?

    2. I would have figured this out BEFORE getting on the rope and chosen not to go if there were no other volunteers to stay; I wouldn't have just hopped on the ladder, then found myself in a bind in mid-air.

    Note: These answers might seem snarky... but they are actually the first two things I thought of.
    I agree with these points. in addition, it's very unprofessional to leave one person behind... they can call in another helicopter if I let the others survive. and if they can't, there are more boring ways to die than sacrificing yourself on an icy mountaintop to save others. I'd get one hell of an obituary.

  8. #68
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    so far, for most NTs only thing that has mattered is the value of the question. most are unable to even look past that. this could mean several things, including:

    -apathy. not wanting to spend time on a question because of its perceived incompetency
    -avoidance. avoid questioning of basic/moral/ethical principles, refuting the question till it matches a standard where it can be answered without rubbing against any inner values or personal rules
    -something else that i cant point a finger towards...yet
    How about simply not wanting to stupidly sacrifice any precious life until we know for absolute sure that this is the only way??? There has to be more than just 2 choices...

  9. #69
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    How about simply not wanting to stupidly sacrifice any precious life until we know for absolute sure that this is the only way??? There has to be more than just 2 choices...
    +1
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    How about simply not wanting to stupidly sacrifice any precious life until we know for absolute sure that this is the only way??? There has to be more than just 2 choices...
    learn to fly in less than a minute...

    tell the pilot to lift off then after thirty seconds let go of the rope and use your jacket to parachute down and hope you dont crash into the mountain

    take your shirt off and re-engineer it into the rope to hold more weight...

    cover yourself with ready to go oatmeal and hope birds will come to eat...you can tie yourself to them and hope to fly away...

    pray

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